4 ms·
Marxist reverence for the proletariat has been an enduring concept. The problem is that nobody has actually defined who the prols are - are they the factory wor
by cal5k 9y ago
Marxist reverence for the proletariat has been an enduring concept. The problem is that nobody has actually defined who the prols are - are they the factory workers? Entrepreneurs? Teachers? Accountants? Lawyers? Engineers? Civil servants?
The US economy is crazy diverse. There really is no such thing as a unified working class struggling against "the man".
- noobermin 9y agoIf you're just talking about Marxian definitions, it's simple: Owns means of production: bourgeousie Works without owning means of production: proletariat
- ericd 9y agoWhere do all the workers who have 401k plans composed of shares of all the public companies in the US fit?
- cal5k 9y agoThey don't. I'm not even sure what the "means of production" are in a service economy like the US.
- noobermin 9y agoI'm not sure what you're trying to do. Do you want to have a sincere discussion or do you want to just debate semantics and pull out exceptions? Do those workers have say in their economic situation? Can they change the direction of their company without losing their jobs? Do they have economic and political power? Stop equating stock ownership in a fund as if it is "owning the means of production." You know that it is a mere extension of the word "own" and it probably doesn't refer to what Marx talked about, so stop trying to twist definitions and thinking it counts as sincere argument.
- ericd 9y agoOwning part of a fund is equivalent to owning part of their holdings, which includes owning the means of production owned by those companies in which they hold shares. I don't agree that it's semantics to point out that the divide between "owners" and "workers" is not at all clean in the US.
- whatshisface 9y agoI think there were other classes than just capital and prole, for example the Kulaks. So blue collar workers with enough wealth to participate in the capital market but not enough to take it easy forever would probably be some other class. Maybe "middle," class: something which was very small and weak in every country that turned communist.
- ericd 9y agoWeren't the Kulaks essentially massacred?
- v_lisivka 9y agoWhat about prostitutes?
- ric2b 9y agoOr Uber drivers...
- deleted 9y ago[deleted]