11 ms·

As a tech professional, it's extra disturbing the way the government pushes these harebrained schemes by marketing them as 'Digital India', 'India Stack', etc.

by firasd 9y ago

As a tech professional, it's extra disturbing the way the government pushes these harebrained schemes by marketing them as 'Digital India', 'India Stack', etc. thus getting visiting dignitaries from other countries to lap it up. We really need to be careful that we don't whitewash autocratic bureaucracy by branding it digital innovation. Note the spin from Aadhaar proponents in this NYT article--that it's the equivalent of building interstate highways, or that citizens are the biggest beneficiaries. They neglect to mention that the program is mandatory. If people were truly benefiting, they wouldn't need to force everyone to link so many of their life activities with this database--we'd do it voluntarily. During the demonetization disaster of Nov 2016 (in which 86% of the cash value in circulation was deemed unusable overnight), once the problems became clear, the government went on a massive PR spree saying that despite the problems faced by ordinary people, the policy will spur 'digital payments'. 18 months later it's clear that this was a stupid claim--the cash in circulation has matched or exceeded the amount that was demonetized. I wrote about this at the time here but I'm still very upset about what went down and the whole 'ooh this will lead to digital innovation!11' deflection. https://hackernoon.com/i-boycott-paytm-5df93d189356 https://hackernoon.com/i-boycott-paytm-5df93d189356

8note 9y ago
you can't opt out of the interstate highways either. you get stuck with whatever pollution they bring into your neighborhood
Alterlife 9y ago
I'm from India too. While I don't support the Aadhaar program in it's present form, just so that we understand the arguments from the other side: India has a lot of problems but most of them stem from two causes: 1. Corruption 2. Inequality In positions of power, corruption is universal. I have yet to meet a person in Bangalore who has been able to purchase property without paying a bribe. Too many of our government 'servants' are sociopaths. It's a generally accepted fact (with no citation needed) that a non-insignificant portion of government spending on social programs and infrastructure is going un-tracked into private pockets. Secondly, inequality. A lot of people get away with things in politics. Robert Vadra gets through security checks though he's not a diplomat, Modiji (allegedly) gets degrees without going to college and Jayalalitha from my own state had people falling not only at her feet but touching the tires of her car. Aadhaar is the 'leveler' that shines light on the financial activities of all these people. 1. Aadhaar is linked to biometrics = aadhaar is linked to a real person 2. You can't live / work in India without Aadhaar = Government employees and people with influence are not exempt. 3. You can't handle money or avail social benefits from the government in India without linking Aadhaar to it = Illegal money can be tracked. This could solve a lot of problems. Of-course there are problems with this apart from the well publicized privacy issues. You can apparently purchase fake Aadhaar cards for a few hundred rupees. It's been reported that more than one person has bought an Aadhaar card for a pet and if it's that simple to beat the system then all the good intentions fall flat.
- captn3m0 9y ago
  The right way to fix corruption is to make the state transparent - RTI was a right step in this direction. Opening up the citizen to the state feels like progress, but isn't really.
  - fooker 9y ago
    That is like saying that the right way to fix bugs is by conducting meetings to grill the programmer. Sure, it can work but it does not scale. If clerks spend all day manually answering RTI queries who will do the work?
    - microcolonel 9y ago
      Where in the world do clerks spend all day answering FOI/RTI queries? I feel people greatly overestimate the typical volume of requests, having personally known at least three FOI officers in two jurisdictions. When you're seeing elevated request volume, it's likely that there's something substantial worth requesting, which is exactly the point of this form of legislation.
      - fooker 9y ago
        Keeping my analogy, developers do not spend the whole day at meetings, but meeting to fix bugs are not generally worth it. Also, when there is a high volume of meetings, there is likely something wrong. I know for a fact that in the Indian Railways, people spend weeks digging up information required to answer RTI queries. Instead of going by feelings ask government employees (preferably someone with a high level view of things) about it. I am not saying RTI is useless. However, without a computerized infrastructure for most, if not all, protocols and processes in the government, it is just a game of cat and mouse.
        microcolonel 9y ago
        > I know for a fact that in the Indian Railways, people spend weeks digging up information required to answer RTI queries. The usual solution to a problem like that is to publish the frequently requested types of information in bulk, before they need to be requested, since they are public records by definition. It costs a bit more than doing nothing, but not nearly as much as corruption does.
ashwinm 9y ago
Mention of demonetisation explains your 'disturbance'. Aadhar predates this government and it had 80% enrollment before their entry to power. So no need to make it political.
- firasd 9y ago
  Yes, I explained the similarities. Aadhaar is a core part of the 'India Stack', which is closely connected to the 'cashless' propaganda during the demonetization disaster. Aadhaar was already flawed as a concept when it was introduced but over the last year there have been sudden mandates to link it to everything. Which makes it far more dangerous. We need to scale it back.
  - ashwinm 9y ago
    Demonentisation has nothing to do with cashless. it was an afterthought. So no connection to Aadhar. So you are no different in making propaganda. Aadhar is here to stay no matter how much fearmongerers whine. It's benefits outweighs risk. A good data protection law is what lacking.
    - thewhitetulip 9y ago
      Of course Adhar is good But the shoving it diwn everyone's throats is a clear form of transforming this democracy into autocracy Adhar is connected to your phone and internet and accounts. So if I make an anti PM statement, suddenly my bank account is frozen, electricity connection is gone (connected to adhar), my frying pan is connected to adhar so if I cook Poha, PM's sycophants can turn it into upma. No tech is bad by its own right, the implementation is good or bad And as far as 2014 implementation goes, adhar is bad
- middleclick 9y ago
  Did you just make an ad hominem? Allow me to remind you that the current PM who is pushing so hard for Aadhar was against it when opposition because he was worried about the "security".
Dravidian 9y ago
Their point of Aadhaar being secure is only based on the data being encrypted with RSA public-key cryptography. They are totally obvilious to other threat vectors. Their specifications state that the vendor should ensure end-to-end encryption. Say vendor X uses a kyc API which follows the UIDAI guidelines to the point, there's nothing preventing the vendor from storing the biometrics on the device before sending it to the kyc. Not to mention that the biometric can be bypassed with OTP SMS & anyone is cybersecurity knowns SMS aren't fool-proof. India is culmination of different civilizations and hence the diversity. No matter how corrupt the previous governments were, they weren't a direct threat to the democracy like the current government is under the pretext of religion.

by firasd 9y ago

8note 9y ago

you can't opt out of the interstate highways either. you get stuck with whatever pollution they bring into your neighborhood

Alterlife 9y ago

I'm from India too. While I don't support the Aadhaar program in it's present form, just so that we understand the arguments from the other side: India has a lot of problems but most of them stem from two causes: 1. Corruption 2. Inequality In positions of power, corruption is universal. I have yet to meet a person in Bangalore who has been able to purchase property without paying a bribe. Too many of our government 'servants' are sociopaths. It's a generally accepted fact (with no citation needed) that a non-insignificant portion of government spending on social programs and infrastructure is going un-tracked into private pockets. Secondly, inequality. A lot of people get away with things in politics. Robert Vadra gets through security checks though he's not a diplomat, Modiji (allegedly) gets degrees without going to college and Jayalalitha from my own state had people falling not only at her feet but touching the tires of her car. Aadhaar is the 'leveler' that shines light on the financial activities of all these people. 1. Aadhaar is linked to biometrics = aadhaar is linked to a real person 2. You can't live / work in India without Aadhaar = Government employees and people with influence are not exempt. 3. You can't handle money or avail social benefits from the government in India without linking Aadhaar to it = Illegal money can be tracked. This could solve a lot of problems. Of-course there are problems with this apart from the well publicized privacy issues. You can apparently purchase fake Aadhaar cards for a few hundred rupees. It's been reported that more than one person has bought an Aadhaar card for a pet and if it's that simple to beat the system then all the good intentions fall flat.

captn3m0 9y ago
The right way to fix corruption is to make the state transparent - RTI was a right step in this direction. Opening up the citizen to the state feels like progress, but isn't really.
- fooker 9y ago
  That is like saying that the right way to fix bugs is by conducting meetings to grill the programmer. Sure, it can work but it does not scale. If clerks spend all day manually answering RTI queries who will do the work?
  - microcolonel 9y ago
    Where in the world do clerks spend all day answering FOI/RTI queries? I feel people greatly overestimate the typical volume of requests, having personally known at least three FOI officers in two jurisdictions. When you're seeing elevated request volume, it's likely that there's something substantial worth requesting, which is exactly the point of this form of legislation.
    - fooker 9y ago
      Keeping my analogy, developers do not spend the whole day at meetings, but meeting to fix bugs are not generally worth it. Also, when there is a high volume of meetings, there is likely something wrong. I know for a fact that in the Indian Railways, people spend weeks digging up information required to answer RTI queries. Instead of going by feelings ask government employees (preferably someone with a high level view of things) about it. I am not saying RTI is useless. However, without a computerized infrastructure for most, if not all, protocols and processes in the government, it is just a game of cat and mouse.
      - microcolonel 9y ago
        > I know for a fact that in the Indian Railways, people spend weeks digging up information required to answer RTI queries. The usual solution to a problem like that is to publish the frequently requested types of information in bulk, before they need to be requested, since they are public records by definition. It costs a bit more than doing nothing, but not nearly as much as corruption does.

ashwinm 9y ago

Mention of demonetisation explains your 'disturbance'. Aadhar predates this government and it had 80% enrollment before their entry to power. So no need to make it political.

firasd 9y ago
Yes, I explained the similarities. Aadhaar is a core part of the 'India Stack', which is closely connected to the 'cashless' propaganda during the demonetization disaster. Aadhaar was already flawed as a concept when it was introduced but over the last year there have been sudden mandates to link it to everything. Which makes it far more dangerous. We need to scale it back.
- ashwinm 9y ago
  Demonentisation has nothing to do with cashless. it was an afterthought. So no connection to Aadhar. So you are no different in making propaganda. Aadhar is here to stay no matter how much fearmongerers whine. It's benefits outweighs risk. A good data protection law is what lacking.
  - thewhitetulip 9y ago
    Of course Adhar is good But the shoving it diwn everyone's throats is a clear form of transforming this democracy into autocracy Adhar is connected to your phone and internet and accounts. So if I make an anti PM statement, suddenly my bank account is frozen, electricity connection is gone (connected to adhar), my frying pan is connected to adhar so if I cook Poha, PM's sycophants can turn it into upma. No tech is bad by its own right, the implementation is good or bad And as far as 2014 implementation goes, adhar is bad
middleclick 9y ago
Did you just make an ad hominem? Allow me to remind you that the current PM who is pushing so hard for Aadhar was against it when opposition because he was worried about the "security".

Dravidian 9y ago

Their point of Aadhaar being secure is only based on the data being encrypted with RSA public-key cryptography. They are totally obvilious to other threat vectors. Their specifications state that the vendor should ensure end-to-end encryption. Say vendor X uses a kyc API which follows the UIDAI guidelines to the point, there's nothing preventing the vendor from storing the biometrics on the device before sending it to the kyc. Not to mention that the biometric can be bypassed with OTP SMS & anyone is cybersecurity knowns SMS aren't fool-proof. India is culmination of different civilizations and hence the diversity. No matter how corrupt the previous governments were, they weren't a direct threat to the democracy like the current government is under the pretext of religion.