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There's bad stuff like Telegram and the Tor browser bundle in the alternatives section. I feel that's somewhat misleading and possibly dangerous to someone not

by 4ad 9y ago

There's bad stuff like Telegram and the Tor browser bundle in the alternatives section. I feel that's somewhat misleading and possibly dangerous to someone not tech savvy enough to do his own vetting. I like these kinds of list, though, as I sometimes I learn about things I didn't know existed.

zaphod4prez 9y ago
What is wrong with Tor?? And Telegram? I don't know much about telegram but am very surprised to hear Tor described as "bad stuff." And my (admittedly amateur) understanding was that Tor Browser Bundle was a perfectly good way to run Tor (though of course not as secure as running Tor on a separate secure OS).
- 4ad 9y ago
  https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=15735789 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=15735789 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=13798275 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=13798275
  - mikaslanche 9y ago
    Both of these links are about Tor. Do you have any of those about Telegram? I've been using it for 2 or 3 years now and I think it's great. I will be so sad if it's as bad as Whatsapp in privacy department :(
    - theyinwhy 9y ago
      Telegram is using non encrypted chats by default and does not have e2e encryption for group chats which is just unacceptable in this day and age.
      - mikaslanche 9y ago
        I don't get it... From here https://telegram.org/faq#q-how-are-secret-chats-different https://telegram.org/faq#q-how-are-secret-chats-different """ Q: Why not just make all chats ‘secret’? All Telegram messages are always securely encrypted. Messages in Secret Chats use client-client encryption, while Cloud Chats use client-server/server-client encryption and are stored encrypted in the Telegram Cloud (more here). This enables your cloud messages to be both secure and immediately accessible from any of your devices – even if you lose your device altogether. """ They claim that it's encrypted, but that uses a different kind of encryption. Maybe this has changed recently?
        theyinwhy 9y ago
        The text is saying that only secret chats offer end 2 end encryption. With e2e encryption the message can only be read by the original sender and the receiver specified by the sender. The quality of the text is btw very questionable and dubious as e2e encryption has nothing todo with where the message is stored. See email where your gpg encrypted message is stored on a lot of systems on its way to reach its final destination. This text makes me distrust Telegram even more, thank you for sharing this!
theyinwhy 9y ago
Advising against using Tor is imho unrighteous. Your arguments are not sound, especially with OS' like qubes and tails around. I am on your side regarding Telegram though and that's mainly because of using non encrypted chats by default and not having encryption for group chats which is just unacceptable in this day and age.
- 4ad 9y ago
  I don't advocate against Tor though, but against the Tor Browser.
  - theyinwhy 9y ago
    The latest tor browser version is based on the latest ff esr version. As your claims are therefore incorrect I am starting to ask myself if you have any political agenda to speak out against the tor browser.

by 4ad 9y ago

zaphod4prez 9y ago

What is wrong with Tor?? And Telegram? I don't know much about telegram but am very surprised to hear Tor described as "bad stuff." And my (admittedly amateur) understanding was that Tor Browser Bundle was a perfectly good way to run Tor (though of course not as secure as running Tor on a separate secure OS).

4ad 9y ago
https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=15735789 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=15735789 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=13798275 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=13798275
- mikaslanche 9y ago
  Both of these links are about Tor. Do you have any of those about Telegram? I've been using it for 2 or 3 years now and I think it's great. I will be so sad if it's as bad as Whatsapp in privacy department :(
  - theyinwhy 9y ago
    Telegram is using non encrypted chats by default and does not have e2e encryption for group chats which is just unacceptable in this day and age.
    - mikaslanche 9y ago
      I don't get it... From here https://telegram.org/faq#q-how-are-secret-chats-different https://telegram.org/faq#q-how-are-secret-chats-different """ Q: Why not just make all chats ‘secret’? All Telegram messages are always securely encrypted. Messages in Secret Chats use client-client encryption, while Cloud Chats use client-server/server-client encryption and are stored encrypted in the Telegram Cloud (more here). This enables your cloud messages to be both secure and immediately accessible from any of your devices – even if you lose your device altogether. """ They claim that it's encrypted, but that uses a different kind of encryption. Maybe this has changed recently?
      - theyinwhy 9y ago
        The text is saying that only secret chats offer end 2 end encryption. With e2e encryption the message can only be read by the original sender and the receiver specified by the sender. The quality of the text is btw very questionable and dubious as e2e encryption has nothing todo with where the message is stored. See email where your gpg encrypted message is stored on a lot of systems on its way to reach its final destination. This text makes me distrust Telegram even more, thank you for sharing this!

theyinwhy 9y ago

Advising against using Tor is imho unrighteous. Your arguments are not sound, especially with OS' like qubes and tails around. I am on your side regarding Telegram though and that's mainly because of using non encrypted chats by default and not having encryption for group chats which is just unacceptable in this day and age.

4ad 9y ago
I don't advocate against Tor though, but against the Tor Browser.
- theyinwhy 9y ago
  The latest tor browser version is based on the latest ff esr version. As your claims are therefore incorrect I am starting to ask myself if you have any political agenda to speak out against the tor browser.