4 ms·

A lot of services that use SMS for new account verification also block numbers from non-mobile providers, even ones that haven't been used before. I tried usin

A lot of services that use SMS for new account verification also block numbers from non-mobile providers, even ones that haven't been used before. I tried using a Twilio number as a Google-Voice-like service where it would forward texts to my actual number, but many services refused to accept the Twilio number.

Operyl 9y ago
Yep. We’re able to figure out VoIP numbers pretty easily thanks to services like Twilio Lookup. Helped out anti fraud out so much.
- chmars 9y ago
  Is there any non-VoIP telephony left?
  - Rjevski 9y ago
    "VoIP" is a generic term in this case as they mean numbers that can be rented online by a customer directly, with little to no identity checks - sadly those are often used for fraud, though outright denying service on this basis alone is a dick move IMO. Pretty much all telephony is VoIP for at least parts of the call chain, though there are still even analog circuits in place; here are some numbers that lead to analog switching gear: http://www.binrev.com/forums/index.php?/topic/48166-ukrainian-crossbar-exchange/ http://www.binrev.com/forums/index.php?/topic/48166-ukrainia...
- jasonjayr 9y ago
  But blocked legit users who ported their real phone numbers to VoIP, like I did. Google won't verify an account against my home phone line anymore. How can we continue to reduce fraud while still serving folks who are using the system legitimately?
  - Operyl 9y ago
    We offer users an easy way to contact us to request manual whitelisting. It's painless, fast, and we find that not much abuse gets through when they have to write in messages to get in.
    - scbrg 9y ago
      Who are "we"?
    - bogomipz 9y ago
      You have commented twice saying "We." And it is not clear who the "we" is. Do you work for mailinator, Twilio, Google?
      - Operyl 9y ago
        Sorry, I was commenting from the perspective of a company that uses phone verification for account signups to help with fraud. I am not affiliated with any of the listed company.
  - gruez 9y ago
    >But blocked legit users who ported their real phone numbers to VoIP, like I did. Google won't verify an account against my home phone line anymore. weird. i use a voip phone service, but twilio identifies it as a landline. maybe you're not using a fixed location voip service?
    - dylz 9y ago
      I use Google Fi as my mobile carrier. It is blocked from virtually everything even though it is a legitimate Sprint+T-Mobile sim.
      - tonyztan 9y ago
        Really? It should identify as a T-Mobile number. Have you tried contacting Fi support?
- Rjevski 9y ago
  Only from those providers that explicitly disclose this fact; I provide API-driven phone numbers (from a carrier partner) and those show up as the carrier's numbers on every lookup tool, with no way to distinguish them from numbers allocated to SIMs directly. I actually really like this fact and will make sure it stays that way.
  - shimon_e 9y ago
    What's your service called?
    - Rjevski 9y ago
      Nextgrid, though at the moment it's still a work in progress (building an entire telco core network from scratch by yourself takes a looooong time), but in the meantime you can get the numbers from my carrier partner directly: https://aa.net.uk/telecoms.html https://aa.net.uk/telecoms.html Those are UK mobile numbers, with SIP for voice and webhooks for texts, and all lookup tools I've found recognise their numbers as "Three" (a mobile carrier in the UK) mobile numbers. I am not actually sure how those guys interconnect to Three, it could even be literally a bunch of GSM modems with real SIMs in it. My long-term plan is to get rid of the middleman and become a carrier myself (get a number range allocated by OFCOM, UK's telco regulator) and offer both SIMs and API-driven numbers (with no way of distinguishing which is which from the outside).
      - imatworkyo 9y ago
        Definitely cool service - do these numbers support MMS?
        Rjevski 9y ago
        Not at the moment no. I might look into it before launch but to be honest nowadays there is very little business case for MMS so I’m not sure it’s worth the investment. Just out of curiosity, what do you use MMS for?
      - 9y ago

Operyl 9y ago

Yep. We’re able to figure out VoIP numbers pretty easily thanks to services like Twilio Lookup. Helped out anti fraud out so much.

chmars 9y ago
Is there any non-VoIP telephony left?
- Rjevski 9y ago
  "VoIP" is a generic term in this case as they mean numbers that can be rented online by a customer directly, with little to no identity checks - sadly those are often used for fraud, though outright denying service on this basis alone is a dick move IMO. Pretty much all telephony is VoIP for at least parts of the call chain, though there are still even analog circuits in place; here are some numbers that lead to analog switching gear: http://www.binrev.com/forums/index.php?/topic/48166-ukrainian-crossbar-exchange/ http://www.binrev.com/forums/index.php?/topic/48166-ukrainia...
jasonjayr 9y ago
But blocked legit users who ported their real phone numbers to VoIP, like I did. Google won't verify an account against my home phone line anymore. How can we continue to reduce fraud while still serving folks who are using the system legitimately?
- Operyl 9y ago
  We offer users an easy way to contact us to request manual whitelisting. It's painless, fast, and we find that not much abuse gets through when they have to write in messages to get in.
  - scbrg 9y ago
    Who are "we"?
  - bogomipz 9y ago
    You have commented twice saying "We." And it is not clear who the "we" is. Do you work for mailinator, Twilio, Google?
    - Operyl 9y ago
      Sorry, I was commenting from the perspective of a company that uses phone verification for account signups to help with fraud. I am not affiliated with any of the listed company.
- gruez 9y ago
  >But blocked legit users who ported their real phone numbers to VoIP, like I did. Google won't verify an account against my home phone line anymore. weird. i use a voip phone service, but twilio identifies it as a landline. maybe you're not using a fixed location voip service?
  - dylz 9y ago
    I use Google Fi as my mobile carrier. It is blocked from virtually everything even though it is a legitimate Sprint+T-Mobile sim.
    - tonyztan 9y ago
      Really? It should identify as a T-Mobile number. Have you tried contacting Fi support?
Rjevski 9y ago
Only from those providers that explicitly disclose this fact; I provide API-driven phone numbers (from a carrier partner) and those show up as the carrier's numbers on every lookup tool, with no way to distinguish them from numbers allocated to SIMs directly. I actually really like this fact and will make sure it stays that way.
- shimon_e 9y ago
  What's your service called?
  - Rjevski 9y ago
    Nextgrid, though at the moment it's still a work in progress (building an entire telco core network from scratch by yourself takes a looooong time), but in the meantime you can get the numbers from my carrier partner directly: https://aa.net.uk/telecoms.html https://aa.net.uk/telecoms.html Those are UK mobile numbers, with SIP for voice and webhooks for texts, and all lookup tools I've found recognise their numbers as "Three" (a mobile carrier in the UK) mobile numbers. I am not actually sure how those guys interconnect to Three, it could even be literally a bunch of GSM modems with real SIMs in it. My long-term plan is to get rid of the middleman and become a carrier myself (get a number range allocated by OFCOM, UK's telco regulator) and offer both SIMs and API-driven numbers (with no way of distinguishing which is which from the outside).
    - imatworkyo 9y ago
      Definitely cool service - do these numbers support MMS?
      - Rjevski 9y ago
        Not at the moment no. I might look into it before launch but to be honest nowadays there is very little business case for MMS so I’m not sure it’s worth the investment. Just out of curiosity, what do you use MMS for?
    - 9y ago