4 ms·

As citizens of earth, we should never stop dreaming and having huge ambitions. We're on the shoulders of people that dreamed of having things better. We're pro

by proee 9y ago

As citizens of earth, we should never stop dreaming and having huge ambitions. We're on the shoulders of people that dreamed of having things better. We're programmed by modern society to be consumers and not producers. Surely there is more happiness in waking up each day and working toward fulfilling your dreams?

halhen 9y ago
This seems like a young persons fallacy. Why would consumerism be the only reason to drop ambitions? How about acceptance and finding peace? Growing into yourself and seeing your role differently? I study a lot and perform well at work, but nowadays I would absolutely say it's not from ambition. Instead, it's from me enjoying to play that character in the game of life. If modern society taught us a fallacy, it is to consider being content as something bad when, in fact, I can think of no better goal to die, and live, happy. Taking the road via accomplishments to get there is not necessarily the most likely way to get there.
- andromedaworld 9y ago
  > This seems like a young persons fallacy Yes, and I think there's a lot of value in naiveté especially when pursuing immensely challenging opportunities. I just don't see how you can get out of bed otherwise because most important things are really hard to do.
  - Karrot_Kream 9y ago
    I'm not sure that there is. Naivete can be useful, and that's the narrative that goes around the tech world a lot, but so does experience with the challenge, the ability to deal with huge changes or crushing failures. I'm not sure if a naive "chasing your dreams" is more or less useful than any other advantage, and I'm not sure that there is data to show one or the other.
  - projektir 9y ago
    > I just don't see how you can get out of bed otherwise because most important things are really hard to do. I am curious as to what it is that you consider so important (and really hard to do)? Most things I see people rushing to do, are not actually important. Perhaps they are important to that person in particular, but such an importance is manufactured and should, if anything, be avoided. I get out of bed mostly because there are fun and interesting activities available that are more entertaining than lying in bed. I'm not anywhere near anything that's actually important.
    - andromedaworld 9y ago
      Shouldn't something at the very least be important enough to you for you to pursue it? You then project how many people would be impacted by your work and prioritize what to pursue first. Also, another way to look at it is to empathise with other people's daily challenges and use your skills to come up with a solution that makes their lives easier and at the same time makes you richer because you take a little compensation from a whole lot of people. Edit: > I'm not anywhere near anything that's actually important. If you're getting paid, you're likely doing something important. People do tend to like to hold on to their money.
      - projektir 8y ago
        I think that's what I am trying to say: I don't see anything worth it for me to pursue. Which is why I am curious what it is that you think is so important that you think it's worth pursuing, because I see nothing of the sort. > If you're getting paid, you're likely doing something important. People do tend to like to hold on to their money. No, just no. You are committing the error of putting too much faith in the ability of the economic system to capture value. The economic system does not capture value well. All it does is measure scarcity vs desire. Online casino developers are basically doing harmful work and can be paid quite well. Social workers, paramedics, etc., and other groups of people doing legitimately important work are paid little, and mothers are paid none. According to the current economic system of value, oxygen is worthless, as well. I thought this was honestly obvious and I'm alarmed at your implication that the system's conception of value can be at all used to measure importance. The system surely measures something, but it isn't that.
Bakary 9y ago
We are also programmed to be producers, but in a way that favors the current economic model. The idea that you absolutely have to make your mark on the world or that people with "normal", boring lives are somehow worth less is quite prevalent and linked to the industrial revolution and modern culture. I don't mean to discourage you from your own goals, but it's worth considering that as people age, they tend to see glory and distancing themselves from others through social status as less important in comparison to maintaining a social network and a family and even simply enjoying what you already have.
projektir 9y ago
As citizens of Earth, our responsibility is to retain the stability of the system or to positively grow the system. Ambitions are often completely in the way of that. Many ambitious projects resulted in colossal damage to the environment or other people. I do not believe that "citizens of Earth" and "huge ambitions" really even belong in the same sentence, as a person with huge ambitions is focused on the short-term progress of the individual, and not the Earth they are a citizen of. Being happy from fulfilling your dreams only works if your dreams are fulfillable. If they're not, you might very well end up rather unhappy. Happiness in this sense often comes down to a balance between legitimately required things, and managing expectations. Ambition, or large dreams, hardly seem required for happiness, and I'm inclined to say are actually detrimental to it. Happiness and success should really be kept separate, and both be ends to themselves. A given person deserves their happiness, and useful projects should be completed because they're useful. Deriving happiness from completing a project means you have now made the project all about you, and from here comes corruption, such as continuing a project that has lost its usefulness, taking advantage of other people, or manipulating p-values.

by proee 9y ago

halhen 9y ago

This seems like a young persons fallacy. Why would consumerism be the only reason to drop ambitions? How about acceptance and finding peace? Growing into yourself and seeing your role differently? I study a lot and perform well at work, but nowadays I would absolutely say it's not from ambition. Instead, it's from me enjoying to play that character in the game of life. If modern society taught us a fallacy, it is to consider being content as something bad when, in fact, I can think of no better goal to die, and live, happy. Taking the road via accomplishments to get there is not necessarily the most likely way to get there.

andromedaworld 9y ago
> This seems like a young persons fallacy Yes, and I think there's a lot of value in naiveté especially when pursuing immensely challenging opportunities. I just don't see how you can get out of bed otherwise because most important things are really hard to do.
- Karrot_Kream 9y ago
  I'm not sure that there is. Naivete can be useful, and that's the narrative that goes around the tech world a lot, but so does experience with the challenge, the ability to deal with huge changes or crushing failures. I'm not sure if a naive "chasing your dreams" is more or less useful than any other advantage, and I'm not sure that there is data to show one or the other.
- projektir 9y ago
  > I just don't see how you can get out of bed otherwise because most important things are really hard to do. I am curious as to what it is that you consider so important (and really hard to do)? Most things I see people rushing to do, are not actually important. Perhaps they are important to that person in particular, but such an importance is manufactured and should, if anything, be avoided. I get out of bed mostly because there are fun and interesting activities available that are more entertaining than lying in bed. I'm not anywhere near anything that's actually important.
  - andromedaworld 9y ago
    Shouldn't something at the very least be important enough to you for you to pursue it? You then project how many people would be impacted by your work and prioritize what to pursue first. Also, another way to look at it is to empathise with other people's daily challenges and use your skills to come up with a solution that makes their lives easier and at the same time makes you richer because you take a little compensation from a whole lot of people. Edit: > I'm not anywhere near anything that's actually important. If you're getting paid, you're likely doing something important. People do tend to like to hold on to their money.
    - projektir 8y ago
      I think that's what I am trying to say: I don't see anything worth it for me to pursue. Which is why I am curious what it is that you think is so important that you think it's worth pursuing, because I see nothing of the sort. > If you're getting paid, you're likely doing something important. People do tend to like to hold on to their money. No, just no. You are committing the error of putting too much faith in the ability of the economic system to capture value. The economic system does not capture value well. All it does is measure scarcity vs desire. Online casino developers are basically doing harmful work and can be paid quite well. Social workers, paramedics, etc., and other groups of people doing legitimately important work are paid little, and mothers are paid none. According to the current economic system of value, oxygen is worthless, as well. I thought this was honestly obvious and I'm alarmed at your implication that the system's conception of value can be at all used to measure importance. The system surely measures something, but it isn't that.

Bakary 9y ago

We are also programmed to be producers, but in a way that favors the current economic model. The idea that you absolutely have to make your mark on the world or that people with "normal", boring lives are somehow worth less is quite prevalent and linked to the industrial revolution and modern culture. I don't mean to discourage you from your own goals, but it's worth considering that as people age, they tend to see glory and distancing themselves from others through social status as less important in comparison to maintaining a social network and a family and even simply enjoying what you already have.

projektir 9y ago

As citizens of Earth, our responsibility is to retain the stability of the system or to positively grow the system. Ambitions are often completely in the way of that. Many ambitious projects resulted in colossal damage to the environment or other people. I do not believe that "citizens of Earth" and "huge ambitions" really even belong in the same sentence, as a person with huge ambitions is focused on the short-term progress of the individual, and not the Earth they are a citizen of. Being happy from fulfilling your dreams only works if your dreams are fulfillable. If they're not, you might very well end up rather unhappy. Happiness in this sense often comes down to a balance between legitimately required things, and managing expectations. Ambition, or large dreams, hardly seem required for happiness, and I'm inclined to say are actually detrimental to it. Happiness and success should really be kept separate, and both be ends to themselves. A given person deserves their happiness, and useful projects should be completed because they're useful. Deriving happiness from completing a project means you have now made the project all about you, and from here comes corruption, such as continuing a project that has lost its usefulness, taking advantage of other people, or manipulating p-values.