5 ms·

They are coming for porn next.

by balozi 9y ago

MentallyRetired 9y ago
They'll have to pry it from my cold, dead, sticky hands!
drawkbox 9y ago
Yeah 'sex trafficking' is really code name for porn for many of the orgs pushing these changes. I wonder how long reddit NSFW subreddits last. The argument that porn leads to more sex trafficking is a false equivalence, faulty comparison and false analogy. You could argue prostitution being illegal instead of legal contributes to more sex trafficking. I think keeping legal porn and making prostitution legal help as it is something that is always in demand, fighting it makes it more unsafe in underground markets. Things people will do no matter if it is illegal or legal that harm noone and is consenting adults or something you do to your own body, it is better to have it in a mainstream market so it can be more easily regulated and ultimately safer than black/underground markets. People pushing these laws think if you have a law the activity stops, yet it only makes it worse and more dangerous. Same with abortion, same with drug wars, same with abstinence education over sex education, basically any moral laws beyond civil rights does not work to change behavior and can make it worse. For proof of this see alcohol prohibition, the 18th amendment and then the 21st when they realize their mistake. You could also argue the drug wars falls under that. You could also argue that there would be LESS human trafficking if prostitution was legal.
- jeffreyrogers 9y ago
  I think porn has a pretty strong history of 1st amendment protection in the US. Some porn companies could probably be prosecuted for how they treat their employees/contractors, but I don't think that's a bad thing.
  - drawkbox 9y ago
    Larry Flynt is an American statesman and hero in the aspect of 1st amendment protections. We probably need a 'Right to Body' amendment that protects what you do with your own body, prostitution and drugs would fall under that ending illegal prostitution making it legal and ending the longest prohibition ever in the drug wars.
- DanBC 9y ago
  > The argument that porn leads to more sex trafficking is a false equivalence Except in Backpage's case it knowingly facilitated sex trafficing of children, and they wen't out of their way to frustrate law enforcement efforts to investigate those crimes.
  - drawkbox 9y ago
    There are already laws against sex trafficking, associating it with porn is a fallacious analogy and weakens the effort preventing sex trafficking immensely. The same type of people that use that logic also want to surveil everything you do like you are a criminal 'for the children' or 'for your safety'. It is a trojan horse that is falsely tarnishing one thing by associating it with a truly bad thing. False analogies are bad like all people with guns are part of school shootings and it is their fault, or people that look at porn are supporting sex trafficking, or people that don't want to be surveilled are hiding something. You probably do some things that someone used for bad somewhere, should you stop doing it because they did something bad with it? Civil rights and protections are important because of this attitude by authoritarian people. Eventually there will be no freedoms left if somewhere somebody uses something for bad rather than good so everyone loses that right.
    - djrogers 9y ago
      > There are already laws against sex trafficking, associating it with porn is a fallacious analogy It may be a fallacious analogy, but your argument is definitely a straw man. Nowhere in this case is porn even mentioned.
      - drawkbox 9y ago
        Take a look at the comment thread this started, it was about porn. Equating porn with sex trafficking is a KNOWN tactic of people / orgs against porn to say it contributes to 'sex trafficking'. Groups like this say it all the time [1][2]. There are also large religious/authoritative groups behind the push and funding. Really it is about gaining more control over you to limit your freedoms. > Pornography is in and of itself a form of sex trafficking [1]. > They teach that there is no acceptable amount of porn to watch; anyone who consumes porn is considered an addict. Utah’s new anti-porn resolution contains language that echoes the Mormon church’s doomsday predictions: “Pornography equates violence towards women and children with sex and pain with pleasure, which increases the demand for sex trafficking, prostitution, child sexual abuse images, and child pornography,” the resolution reads. “Pornography use is linked to lessening desire in young men to marry, dissatisfaction in marriage, and infidelity.” [2] The only strawman are those setups. Groups are pushing these types of laws all over the country in especially authoritarian states/orgs. It freaks me out some are moving back to a crazy conservative view of sex/humans almost scarlet letter-esque, shaming, culty, very controlling and authoritarian view over your own body and mind. [1] http://humantraffickingsearch.org/the-connection-between-sex-trafficking-and-pornography/ http://humantraffickingsearch.org/the-connection-between-sex... [2] http://www.slate.com/blogs/xx_factor/2016/04/20/utah_declares_porn_a_public_health_crisis_furthering_a_mormon_myth_about.html http://www.slate.com/blogs/xx_factor/2016/04/20/utah_declare...
- burger_moon 9y ago
  > I wonder how long reddit NSFW subreddits last. I'm curious about other apps as well. Snapchat in case people aren't aware is used very heavily for prostitution and porn. Twitter to a lesser degree but I have noticed it is also used a lot for this. Interestingly google pay is the most popular payment provider that is used for this. I wonder why snap cash isn't used.
- Fnoord 9y ago
  > People pushing these laws think if you have a law the activity stops, yet it only makes it worse and more dangerous. Same with abortion, same with drug wars, same with abstinence education over sex education, basically any moral laws beyond civil rights does not work to change behavior and can make it worse. What about guns though? There's hardly any shootings in Europe, and guns are -generally- basically illegal there.
jimmy1 9y ago
And honestly, that's fine with a lot of us. There is an undeniable connection between the porn industry and sex trafficking. Haha I knew this would strike a nerve here. The truth is, your modern "no porn" movement isn't coming from the religious right anymore. So now that the typical scapegoats are out of the picture, you are left with actually having to sit and think for yourself. You think an evangelical started /r/nofap?
- d1zzy 9y ago
  So all those couples recording themselves and uploading to pornhub are being "trafficked" and we should stop all sites that allow to do that? There is a lot more to porn than just professionally recorded porn (which btw, is one of the most audited industries, since it's very easy way to score some points with the electorate for a DA to go after shady stuff happening in such a studio).
  - gowld 9y ago
    Have you seen the signed model releases for those recordings? Do you know they were uploaded by themselves plural, not just one party? And with consent?
- mrsteveman1 9y ago
  > The truth is, your modern "no porn" movement isn't coming from the religious right anymore. Former NoFap people frequently claim it's a literal cult. A quick Google search brings up a lot of NoFap posts about church and God, with anti-masturbation rhetoric that looks exactly like the religious movements that have been around for decades. It would be very, very surprising if they weren't actively encouraging and manipulating the NoFap people for their own selfish reasons. In any case, what does that have to do with the government blatantly targeting and harassing people exercising their right to free speech? That seems to be what you're suggesting you're OK with. Or are you somehow convinced that Jeff Sessions & friends would selectively target parts of the porn industry with actual ties to sex trafficking, and leave some segment of the porn industry alone? No chance, their motivations have absolutely nothing to do with fighting sex trafficking.
- 9y ago
DanBC 9y ago
Backpage is being targetted because it actively facilitated the kidnapping, drugging, and raping of children. That's not porn.
- dragonwriter 9y ago
  > Backpage is being targetted because it actively facilitated the kidnapping, drugging, and raping of children. It's being accused of that, but it was probably targeted merely because it facilitated prostitution; MyRedbook.com was previously seized by the Justice Department, without any accusation of knowingly facilitate anything other than adult consensual sex trade (there were claims to the media by incestigators that “massage parlors” pimping minors used the site, but not that the site operators were knowingly facilitating that.)
  - DanBC 9y ago
    Backpage admit that trafficing ads appeared in their paper. They claim that the law means they bear no responsibility for that. Please do read the report I've linked. It's very clear that Backpage knew that ads for children that had been trafficed were being placed, and that Backpage was helping those ads to be placed.
return0 9y ago
but who is they ?
stephengillie 9y ago
It's really telling that POF, CmB, Tinder, Match, Bumble, et al haven't made any moves. As though they did not anticipate impact.

They are coming for porn next.

by balozi 9y ago

They are coming for porn next.

MentallyRetired 9y ago

They'll have to pry it from my cold, dead, sticky hands!

drawkbox 9y ago

Yeah 'sex trafficking' is really code name for porn for many of the orgs pushing these changes. I wonder how long reddit NSFW subreddits last. The argument that porn leads to more sex trafficking is a false equivalence, faulty comparison and false analogy. You could argue prostitution being illegal instead of legal contributes to more sex trafficking. I think keeping legal porn and making prostitution legal help as it is something that is always in demand, fighting it makes it more unsafe in underground markets. Things people will do no matter if it is illegal or legal that harm noone and is consenting adults or something you do to your own body, it is better to have it in a mainstream market so it can be more easily regulated and ultimately safer than black/underground markets. People pushing these laws think if you have a law the activity stops, yet it only makes it worse and more dangerous. Same with abortion, same with drug wars, same with abstinence education over sex education, basically any moral laws beyond civil rights does not work to change behavior and can make it worse. For proof of this see alcohol prohibition, the 18th amendment and then the 21st when they realize their mistake. You could also argue the drug wars falls under that. You could also argue that there would be LESS human trafficking if prostitution was legal.

jeffreyrogers 9y ago
I think porn has a pretty strong history of 1st amendment protection in the US. Some porn companies could probably be prosecuted for how they treat their employees/contractors, but I don't think that's a bad thing.
- drawkbox 9y ago
  Larry Flynt is an American statesman and hero in the aspect of 1st amendment protections. We probably need a 'Right to Body' amendment that protects what you do with your own body, prostitution and drugs would fall under that ending illegal prostitution making it legal and ending the longest prohibition ever in the drug wars.
DanBC 9y ago
> The argument that porn leads to more sex trafficking is a false equivalence Except in Backpage's case it knowingly facilitated sex trafficing of children, and they wen't out of their way to frustrate law enforcement efforts to investigate those crimes.
- drawkbox 9y ago
  There are already laws against sex trafficking, associating it with porn is a fallacious analogy and weakens the effort preventing sex trafficking immensely. The same type of people that use that logic also want to surveil everything you do like you are a criminal 'for the children' or 'for your safety'. It is a trojan horse that is falsely tarnishing one thing by associating it with a truly bad thing. False analogies are bad like all people with guns are part of school shootings and it is their fault, or people that look at porn are supporting sex trafficking, or people that don't want to be surveilled are hiding something. You probably do some things that someone used for bad somewhere, should you stop doing it because they did something bad with it? Civil rights and protections are important because of this attitude by authoritarian people. Eventually there will be no freedoms left if somewhere somebody uses something for bad rather than good so everyone loses that right.
  - djrogers 9y ago
    > There are already laws against sex trafficking, associating it with porn is a fallacious analogy It may be a fallacious analogy, but your argument is definitely a straw man. Nowhere in this case is porn even mentioned.
    - drawkbox 9y ago
      Take a look at the comment thread this started, it was about porn. Equating porn with sex trafficking is a KNOWN tactic of people / orgs against porn to say it contributes to 'sex trafficking'. Groups like this say it all the time [1][2]. There are also large religious/authoritative groups behind the push and funding. Really it is about gaining more control over you to limit your freedoms. > Pornography is in and of itself a form of sex trafficking [1]. > They teach that there is no acceptable amount of porn to watch; anyone who consumes porn is considered an addict. Utah’s new anti-porn resolution contains language that echoes the Mormon church’s doomsday predictions: “Pornography equates violence towards women and children with sex and pain with pleasure, which increases the demand for sex trafficking, prostitution, child sexual abuse images, and child pornography,” the resolution reads. “Pornography use is linked to lessening desire in young men to marry, dissatisfaction in marriage, and infidelity.” [2] The only strawman are those setups. Groups are pushing these types of laws all over the country in especially authoritarian states/orgs. It freaks me out some are moving back to a crazy conservative view of sex/humans almost scarlet letter-esque, shaming, culty, very controlling and authoritarian view over your own body and mind. [1] http://humantraffickingsearch.org/the-connection-between-sex-trafficking-and-pornography/ http://humantraffickingsearch.org/the-connection-between-sex... [2] http://www.slate.com/blogs/xx_factor/2016/04/20/utah_declares_porn_a_public_health_crisis_furthering_a_mormon_myth_about.html http://www.slate.com/blogs/xx_factor/2016/04/20/utah_declare...
burger_moon 9y ago
> I wonder how long reddit NSFW subreddits last. I'm curious about other apps as well. Snapchat in case people aren't aware is used very heavily for prostitution and porn. Twitter to a lesser degree but I have noticed it is also used a lot for this. Interestingly google pay is the most popular payment provider that is used for this. I wonder why snap cash isn't used.
Fnoord 9y ago
> People pushing these laws think if you have a law the activity stops, yet it only makes it worse and more dangerous. Same with abortion, same with drug wars, same with abstinence education over sex education, basically any moral laws beyond civil rights does not work to change behavior and can make it worse. What about guns though? There's hardly any shootings in Europe, and guns are -generally- basically illegal there.

jimmy1 9y ago

And honestly, that's fine with a lot of us. There is an undeniable connection between the porn industry and sex trafficking. Haha I knew this would strike a nerve here. The truth is, your modern "no porn" movement isn't coming from the religious right anymore. So now that the typical scapegoats are out of the picture, you are left with actually having to sit and think for yourself. You think an evangelical started /r/nofap?

d1zzy 9y ago
So all those couples recording themselves and uploading to pornhub are being "trafficked" and we should stop all sites that allow to do that? There is a lot more to porn than just professionally recorded porn (which btw, is one of the most audited industries, since it's very easy way to score some points with the electorate for a DA to go after shady stuff happening in such a studio).
- gowld 9y ago
  Have you seen the signed model releases for those recordings? Do you know they were uploaded by themselves plural, not just one party? And with consent?
mrsteveman1 9y ago
> The truth is, your modern "no porn" movement isn't coming from the religious right anymore. Former NoFap people frequently claim it's a literal cult. A quick Google search brings up a lot of NoFap posts about church and God, with anti-masturbation rhetoric that looks exactly like the religious movements that have been around for decades. It would be very, very surprising if they weren't actively encouraging and manipulating the NoFap people for their own selfish reasons. In any case, what does that have to do with the government blatantly targeting and harassing people exercising their right to free speech? That seems to be what you're suggesting you're OK with. Or are you somehow convinced that Jeff Sessions & friends would selectively target parts of the porn industry with actual ties to sex trafficking, and leave some segment of the porn industry alone? No chance, their motivations have absolutely nothing to do with fighting sex trafficking.
9y ago

DanBC 9y ago

Backpage is being targetted because it actively facilitated the kidnapping, drugging, and raping of children. That's not porn.

dragonwriter 9y ago
> Backpage is being targetted because it actively facilitated the kidnapping, drugging, and raping of children. It's being accused of that, but it was probably targeted merely because it facilitated prostitution; MyRedbook.com was previously seized by the Justice Department, without any accusation of knowingly facilitate anything other than adult consensual sex trade (there were claims to the media by incestigators that “massage parlors” pimping minors used the site, but not that the site operators were knowingly facilitating that.)
- DanBC 9y ago
  Backpage admit that trafficing ads appeared in their paper. They claim that the law means they bear no responsibility for that. Please do read the report I've linked. It's very clear that Backpage knew that ads for children that had been trafficed were being placed, and that Backpage was helping those ads to be placed.

return0 9y ago

but who is they ?

stephengillie 9y ago

It's really telling that POF, CmB, Tinder, Match, Bumble, et al haven't made any moves. As though they did not anticipate impact.