3 ms·

This makes sense, though I don't see how various "carrots" like faux-value-add spyware will penetrate the market significantly, since they likely can't beat Goo

This makes sense, though I don't see how various "carrots" like faux-value-add spyware will penetrate the market significantly, since they likely can't beat Google/Facebook in actual delivered value. Also, spyware / crapware already has a pretty bad rep, and will likely be flagged by system scanning tools on traditional PCs (maybe not mobile devices though). Your other points about how they can (ab)use their position as the gateway to chip away the effect of encryption by laying various roadblocks (I guess the proverbial "stick" in the "carrot/stick" trope) seems like it could have some teeth if the ISPs really doubled down on this strategy. I expect they will have to overcome significant controversy in order to be successful on a mass scale (but we'll see I guess). Encryption has gotten much easier and more widespread in recent years, and is growing. If the ISPs had really focused on attacking it a few years ago, they could've nipped their surveillance competition in the bud, but now it's a harder problem for them to deal with. Not 100% insurmountable, as parent explained.

drawkbox 9y ago
> Encryption has gotten much easier and more widespread in recent years, and is growing. When you only have a handful of large ISPs where AT&T has been known to split your data to share with the NSA and authorities, that is dangerous thinking [1]. > Room 641A is a telecommunication interception facility operated by AT&T for the U.S. National Security Agency that commenced operations in 2003 and was exposed in 2006 That was over a decade ago, I am sure by now they have privilege to lots of that data and technology. There was a #deletefacebook movement which proves that you can get rid of Facebook and people use it by choice. There cannot be a #deleteISP movement as that is the 'trusted' network gateway you can't route around. All it takes is scaring people who use ISPs to allow in more monitoring 'for your safety' or 'more data cap space' or 'faster internet' or 'lower costs', they can legally sell that data now so there is an incentive to do these things. There is a reason they lobbied for this right and removal of net neutrality, it wasn't to play nice. Hotel wifi like ISPs here we come. [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Room_641A https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Room_641A

drawkbox 9y ago

> Encryption has gotten much easier and more widespread in recent years, and is growing. When you only have a handful of large ISPs where AT&T has been known to split your data to share with the NSA and authorities, that is dangerous thinking [1]. > Room 641A is a telecommunication interception facility operated by AT&T for the U.S. National Security Agency that commenced operations in 2003 and was exposed in 2006 That was over a decade ago, I am sure by now they have privilege to lots of that data and technology. There was a #deletefacebook movement which proves that you can get rid of Facebook and people use it by choice. There cannot be a #deleteISP movement as that is the 'trusted' network gateway you can't route around. All it takes is scaring people who use ISPs to allow in more monitoring 'for your safety' or 'more data cap space' or 'faster internet' or 'lower costs', they can legally sell that data now so there is an incentive to do these things. There is a reason they lobbied for this right and removal of net neutrality, it wasn't to play nice. Hotel wifi like ISPs here we come. [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Room_641A https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Room_641A