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Apples fake privacy concerns. They allow apps like gas buddy to wholesale sell your real time location to governments by using vague language in their privacy

by us0r 9y ago

Apples fake privacy concerns. They allow apps like gas buddy to wholesale sell your real time location to governments by using vague language in their privacy policies (which I cannot even find a link to on their homepage).

CharlesW 9y ago
> They allow apps like gas buddy to wholesale sell your real time location… You control this. I don't recall whether this app supports "Never" as a Privacy > Location Services choice, but you can choose "While Using" instead of "Always".
- Skunkleton 9y ago
  You _really_ control this. If you don't like Gas Buddy's privacy policy just don't install it.
  - giancarlostoro 9y ago
    My thoughts exactly. When I don't like something an app is doing I don't install it. I remember when I'd try free games on Android that requested every permission under the sun I would not install those apps. I've even seen some apps share in the description "Removed the crazy permissions due to complaints, sorry guys did not mean to upset you" or something along those lines. So sometimes it's not malicious, but it is scary that an offline only game needs so much access to your phone.
- tinus_hn 9y ago
  The developer doesn't get to choose not to support 'Never' and with iOS 11 doesn't get to choose not to support 'While using' either. It maybe though that the app can't work without knowing your location, which sounds likely for an app that is supposed to tell you something related to your location.
- Rjevski 9y ago
  "Never" is always an option from my experience. I have never seen an app that doesn't allow to completely deny location access.
  - duskwuff 9y ago
    > I have never seen an app that doesn't allow to completely deny location access. That's because Apple explicitly tests for that during app review, and will reject apps which crash or refuse to work if they're denied access to Location Services or other APIs (photos, contacts, microphone, etc).
    - Rjevski 9y ago
      So this is a non-issue. But technically, even if an app slips through the cracks and only allows "Always" and "While using the app" as options, you can force-quit the app without pressing either of the buttons on the modal and then deleting the app, thus not giving it any location information.
      - duskwuff 9y ago
        > ...even if an app slips through the cracks and only allows "Always" and "While using the app" as options... It can't. The permissions UI is rendered by the OS, not by the application. There's no way to hide the option to deny permissions.
        Rjevski 9y ago
        Based on your previous reply I thought that the lack of apps that require location was due to Apple’s review process and not the fact that the “Never” button can’t be disabled.
        duskwuff 9y ago
        It's both. If your app doesn't work properly when a user taps the "Never" button (which you can't get rid of), Apple rejects it.
macintux 9y ago
You have control over your data: you can choose whether GasBuddy has access to your location always, never, or only during use. This is one case where iOS widgets can impact your privacy: setting it to 'only during use' also qualifies the widget to refresh your location when it displays. It's not obvious to me whether any access of the widget screen is sufficient or whether you have to scroll past/to the GasBuddy widget to explicitly trigger that. Anyway, Apple has been a loud advocate for privacy, and its CEO has strong personal reasons for valuing it.
- alexbeloi 9y ago
  >its CEO has strong personal reasons for valuing [privacy] I don't know what this is referring to, could you please share?
  - soperj 9y ago
    He's gay.
  - davymac 9y ago
    A gay man raised in Alabama.
  - imron 9y ago
    See: https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/the-switch/wp/2016/08/15/the-privacy-debate-is-personal-to-tim-cook/ https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/the-switch/wp/2016/08/15...
ksk 9y ago
Do you want less or more user control? Or should Apple control everything? I'm certainly not a fan of Apple but I respect their ability to mostly just stick the to basics of you give me $100 and I give you this product of equal (sic) value.
urda 9y ago
> Apples fake privacy concerns. Apple has been a loud, proven advocate and supporter of Privacy. This comment is all snark and nothing factual.
- CaptSpify 9y ago
  They have been loud, but it remains to be proven. The truth is that we don't really know what they do with our data.
  - iamdave 9y ago
    Telling the FBI to bugger off when they came and asked apple to crack their own encryption isn't enough of an example, exigent as it may very well be, whatever your personal opinions of due process are?
    - CaptSpify 9y ago
      I'm extremely glad they did that, and I absolutely give them credit for it. But it only proves that they were willing to stand up to the FBI. It doesn't prove anything else about how they handle your data and privacy. I'm not saying that they abuse it, I'm just saying that we don't know what they do.
      - thecosas 9y ago
        All we can do is look at the information so far and it indicates they care about privacy: https://www.apple.com/privacy/ https://www.apple.com/privacy/ and more specifically https://www.apple.com/privacy/government-information-requests/ https://www.apple.com/privacy/government-information-request...
        CaptSpify 9y ago
        Well, that isn't nearly all of the information. That is what they say, just like FB says they they don't abuse your privacy. https://www.reuters.com/article/us-china-apple-icloud-insight/apple-moves-to-store-icloud-keys-in-china-raising-human-rights-fears-idUSKCN1G8060 https://www.reuters.com/article/us-china-apple-icloud-insigh... They have already shown that they are willing to violate people's privacy. That is useful information.

by us0r 9y ago

CharlesW 9y ago

> They allow apps like gas buddy to wholesale sell your real time location… You control this. I don't recall whether this app supports "Never" as a Privacy > Location Services choice, but you can choose "While Using" instead of "Always".

Skunkleton 9y ago
You _really_ control this. If you don't like Gas Buddy's privacy policy just don't install it.
- giancarlostoro 9y ago
  My thoughts exactly. When I don't like something an app is doing I don't install it. I remember when I'd try free games on Android that requested every permission under the sun I would not install those apps. I've even seen some apps share in the description "Removed the crazy permissions due to complaints, sorry guys did not mean to upset you" or something along those lines. So sometimes it's not malicious, but it is scary that an offline only game needs so much access to your phone.
tinus_hn 9y ago
The developer doesn't get to choose not to support 'Never' and with iOS 11 doesn't get to choose not to support 'While using' either. It maybe though that the app can't work without knowing your location, which sounds likely for an app that is supposed to tell you something related to your location.
Rjevski 9y ago
"Never" is always an option from my experience. I have never seen an app that doesn't allow to completely deny location access.
- duskwuff 9y ago
  > I have never seen an app that doesn't allow to completely deny location access. That's because Apple explicitly tests for that during app review, and will reject apps which crash or refuse to work if they're denied access to Location Services or other APIs (photos, contacts, microphone, etc).
  - Rjevski 9y ago
    So this is a non-issue. But technically, even if an app slips through the cracks and only allows "Always" and "While using the app" as options, you can force-quit the app without pressing either of the buttons on the modal and then deleting the app, thus not giving it any location information.
    - duskwuff 9y ago
      > ...even if an app slips through the cracks and only allows "Always" and "While using the app" as options... It can't. The permissions UI is rendered by the OS, not by the application. There's no way to hide the option to deny permissions.
      - Rjevski 9y ago
        Based on your previous reply I thought that the lack of apps that require location was due to Apple’s review process and not the fact that the “Never” button can’t be disabled.
        duskwuff 9y ago
        It's both. If your app doesn't work properly when a user taps the "Never" button (which you can't get rid of), Apple rejects it.

macintux 9y ago

You have control over your data: you can choose whether GasBuddy has access to your location always, never, or only during use. This is one case where iOS widgets can impact your privacy: setting it to 'only during use' also qualifies the widget to refresh your location when it displays. It's not obvious to me whether any access of the widget screen is sufficient or whether you have to scroll past/to the GasBuddy widget to explicitly trigger that. Anyway, Apple has been a loud advocate for privacy, and its CEO has strong personal reasons for valuing it.

alexbeloi 9y ago
>its CEO has strong personal reasons for valuing [privacy] I don't know what this is referring to, could you please share?
- soperj 9y ago
  He's gay.
- davymac 9y ago
  A gay man raised in Alabama.
- imron 9y ago
  See: https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/the-switch/wp/2016/08/15/the-privacy-debate-is-personal-to-tim-cook/ https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/the-switch/wp/2016/08/15...

ksk 9y ago

Do you want less or more user control? Or should Apple control everything? I'm certainly not a fan of Apple but I respect their ability to mostly just stick the to basics of you give me $100 and I give you this product of equal (sic) value.

urda 9y ago

> Apples fake privacy concerns. Apple has been a loud, proven advocate and supporter of Privacy. This comment is all snark and nothing factual.

CaptSpify 9y ago
They have been loud, but it remains to be proven. The truth is that we don't really know what they do with our data.
- iamdave 9y ago
  Telling the FBI to bugger off when they came and asked apple to crack their own encryption isn't enough of an example, exigent as it may very well be, whatever your personal opinions of due process are?
  - CaptSpify 9y ago
    I'm extremely glad they did that, and I absolutely give them credit for it. But it only proves that they were willing to stand up to the FBI. It doesn't prove anything else about how they handle your data and privacy. I'm not saying that they abuse it, I'm just saying that we don't know what they do.
    - thecosas 9y ago
      All we can do is look at the information so far and it indicates they care about privacy: https://www.apple.com/privacy/ https://www.apple.com/privacy/ and more specifically https://www.apple.com/privacy/government-information-requests/ https://www.apple.com/privacy/government-information-request...
      - CaptSpify 9y ago
        Well, that isn't nearly all of the information. That is what they say, just like FB says they they don't abuse your privacy. https://www.reuters.com/article/us-china-apple-icloud-insight/apple-moves-to-store-icloud-keys-in-china-raising-human-rights-fears-idUSKCN1G8060 https://www.reuters.com/article/us-china-apple-icloud-insigh... They have already shown that they are willing to violate people's privacy. That is useful information.