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> Would you attribute the recent Toys R Us bankruptcy to individual owners? I wouldn't attribute it to the owners of individual stores, but the CEO? Absolutely

> Would you attribute the recent Toys R Us bankruptcy to individual owners? I wouldn't attribute it to the owners of individual stores, but the CEO? Absolutely > Or if your favorite startup goes under and has to declare bankruptcy to shield itself from creditors before the company dissolves would you start attributing bankruptcy to individual employees with equity/stock options? Trump wasn't an individual employee with stock options.

deleted 9y ago
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will_brown 9y ago
It should be noted im not sticking up for Trump, just addressing the idea of attributing a company bankruptcy to company owners as if they personally filed bankruptcy, as done by OP. Still if you want to attribute the bankruptcies of companies to Trump personally because he was CEO...post a link, because I don’t think Trump was an employee of these companies at all, much less responsible for day to day operations of the casinos as CEO. He was an owner for sure and likely sat on the board, not unlike many SV investors and VCs of startups that fail everyday.
- tialaramex 9y ago
  The reason it's called the "Trump Organisation" is because it's unusual in that Trump literally just owns it. It's not a bunch of public companies with Trump happening to have some job like "Chief Executive" or "Chairman", it's personally owned outright by Donald J Trump (in a few cases the companies are co-owned, but mostly it's just Trump).
  - will_brown 9y ago
    First OP was saying “his bankruptcies” now you are bringing up the “Trump Organization”...none of the above declared bankruptcy, four casinos declared bankruptcy of which Trump was a shareholder. Yes the casinos have his name on them, but that doesn’t make him CEO, or an employee, the sole owner of these casinos, or mean when the casinos filed bankruptcy they were his personal bankruptcies. You are right they were not public companies, but neither are startups and we don’t go out of our way to attribute failures and bankruptcies of startups to investors/owners or members of the board.
- nl 9y ago
  He was personally responsible for the decisions in at least 2 of the 4 bankruptcies, but the other 2 are more debatable. http://www.politifact.com/truth-o-meter/statements/2015/sep/21/carly-fiorina/trumps-four-bankruptcies/ http://www.politifact.com/truth-o-meter/statements/2015/sep/...
  - will_brown 9y ago
    That link doesn’t support your contention Trump was personally responsible, in fact it says: >It’s not fair to put all the blame on Trump for the four bankruptcies because he’s acting as any investor would. Investors often own many non-integrated companies, which they fund by taking on debt, and some of them inevitably file for bankruptcy, said Adam Levitin, a law professor at Georgetown University. And basically supports what what I suggest: >He added that people typically wouldn’t personally blame former Republican presidential candidate Mitt Romney or investor Warren Buffett for individual failures within their investment companies, Bain Capital and Berkshire Hathaway, respectively. Despite the fact the guy pretends to be self-made (he isn’t), there is something to be said for someone who took a $10M loan from his father and turned it into a $1B+ Business empire. Sure there have been some individual business failures along the way (which his ego barely allows him to acknowledge), but it pretty funny SV with its ethos of not being afraid to fail and iterating, is so petty they extend 4 business bankruptcies (which were all chapter 11 reorganization’s) onto the man personally, but would never dare put that type of standard on SV investors (just as the article you linked suggests).
    - nl 9y ago
      Read the first two. 1) He funded the construction of the $1 billion Trump Taj Mahal casino in Atlantic City, which opened in 1990. By 1991, the casino was nearly $3 billion in debt, while Trump had racked up nearly $900 million in personal liabilities, so the business decided to file for Chapter 11 reorganization, according to the New York Times. As a result, Trump gave up half his personal stake in the casino and sold his yacht and airline, according to the Washington Post. 2) As a result of the bankruptcy, in exchange for easier terms on which to pay off the debts, Trump relinquished a 49 percent stake in the Plaza to a total of six lenders, according to ABC News. Trump remained the hotel’s CEO, but it was merely a gesture -- he didn’t earn a salary and had no say in the hotel’s day-to-day operations He had a lot to do with those two.

deleted 9y ago

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will_brown 9y ago

It should be noted im not sticking up for Trump, just addressing the idea of attributing a company bankruptcy to company owners as if they personally filed bankruptcy, as done by OP. Still if you want to attribute the bankruptcies of companies to Trump personally because he was CEO...post a link, because I don’t think Trump was an employee of these companies at all, much less responsible for day to day operations of the casinos as CEO. He was an owner for sure and likely sat on the board, not unlike many SV investors and VCs of startups that fail everyday.

tialaramex 9y ago
The reason it's called the "Trump Organisation" is because it's unusual in that Trump literally just owns it. It's not a bunch of public companies with Trump happening to have some job like "Chief Executive" or "Chairman", it's personally owned outright by Donald J Trump (in a few cases the companies are co-owned, but mostly it's just Trump).
- will_brown 9y ago
  First OP was saying “his bankruptcies” now you are bringing up the “Trump Organization”...none of the above declared bankruptcy, four casinos declared bankruptcy of which Trump was a shareholder. Yes the casinos have his name on them, but that doesn’t make him CEO, or an employee, the sole owner of these casinos, or mean when the casinos filed bankruptcy they were his personal bankruptcies. You are right they were not public companies, but neither are startups and we don’t go out of our way to attribute failures and bankruptcies of startups to investors/owners or members of the board.
nl 9y ago
He was personally responsible for the decisions in at least 2 of the 4 bankruptcies, but the other 2 are more debatable. http://www.politifact.com/truth-o-meter/statements/2015/sep/21/carly-fiorina/trumps-four-bankruptcies/ http://www.politifact.com/truth-o-meter/statements/2015/sep/...
- will_brown 9y ago
  That link doesn’t support your contention Trump was personally responsible, in fact it says: >It’s not fair to put all the blame on Trump for the four bankruptcies because he’s acting as any investor would. Investors often own many non-integrated companies, which they fund by taking on debt, and some of them inevitably file for bankruptcy, said Adam Levitin, a law professor at Georgetown University. And basically supports what what I suggest: >He added that people typically wouldn’t personally blame former Republican presidential candidate Mitt Romney or investor Warren Buffett for individual failures within their investment companies, Bain Capital and Berkshire Hathaway, respectively. Despite the fact the guy pretends to be self-made (he isn’t), there is something to be said for someone who took a $10M loan from his father and turned it into a $1B+ Business empire. Sure there have been some individual business failures along the way (which his ego barely allows him to acknowledge), but it pretty funny SV with its ethos of not being afraid to fail and iterating, is so petty they extend 4 business bankruptcies (which were all chapter 11 reorganization’s) onto the man personally, but would never dare put that type of standard on SV investors (just as the article you linked suggests).
  - nl 9y ago
    Read the first two. 1) He funded the construction of the $1 billion Trump Taj Mahal casino in Atlantic City, which opened in 1990. By 1991, the casino was nearly $3 billion in debt, while Trump had racked up nearly $900 million in personal liabilities, so the business decided to file for Chapter 11 reorganization, according to the New York Times. As a result, Trump gave up half his personal stake in the casino and sold his yacht and airline, according to the Washington Post. 2) As a result of the bankruptcy, in exchange for easier terms on which to pay off the debts, Trump relinquished a 49 percent stake in the Plaza to a total of six lenders, according to ABC News. Trump remained the hotel’s CEO, but it was merely a gesture -- he didn’t earn a salary and had no say in the hotel’s day-to-day operations He had a lot to do with those two.