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> digital property that cannot be reproduced for free. Sure, all through the magic of using a medium sized country's worth of electricity.... > Smart contract

> digital property that cannot be reproduced for free. Sure, all through the magic of using a medium sized country's worth of electricity.... > Smart contracts add another new thing to the world: the ability to build immutable software that interacts directly with the financial system. "Immutable" as in "immutable up until the folks at the top decide to alter history to benefit themselves financially". See also - Ethereum & The DAO. > and almost all of the interesting blockchain projects are still in the R&D phase. Bitcoin is more than 10 years old. It is a mature tech that is still in search of a problem.

TeMPOraL 9y ago
>> digital property that cannot be reproduced for free. > Sure, all through the magic of using a medium sized country's worth of electricity.... Exactly. Also, I'd question if having more kinds of "property that cannot be reproduced for free" is a good thing. We have plenty of that already. The world becomes better as more things can be reproduced cheaper.
- dorgo 9y ago
  It's like saying free/easy dollar reproduction would make the world better.
  - TeMPOraL 9y ago
    No. You can't eat replicated dollars. But you could eat replicated food, wear replicated clothes or drive a replicated car.
mpfundstein 9y ago
Bitcoin solves a problem. Ever used a dark web market. Good luck with Paypal
- emodendroket 9y ago
  If the problem it solves is "I need a way to buy illegal drugs, weapons, and fake IDs while evading the police," I think you can see obvious problems to mass-market adoption. I also wonder whether a system with a permanent, publicly accessible ledger is truly ideal for this application.
  - golergka 9y ago
    It's already massively adopted in this field, like it or not. Buying drugs with bitcoin is mainstream; no drug dealer takes cash now.
    - emodendroket 9y ago
      Yes, but I don't think the Bitcoin pushers are telling us that it's going to revolutionize the world of buying heroin online.
    - Aloha 9y ago
      "no drug dealer takes cash now." seem hyperbole on its face.
    - hndamien 9y ago
      Cash is still more anonymous than BTC, just not as mobile. Monero is more anonymous and more mobile. This is what real dealers use over distance.
  - mpfundstein 9y ago
    Spookyhesunset claimed that bitcoin still looks for a problem to solve. I showed that it did so. Whether its ethical or whatever doesnt matter. There is a huge market, period!
nokcha 9y ago
>"Immutable" as in "immutable up until the folks at the top decide to alter history to benefit themselves financially". See also - Ethereum & The DAO. You seem to be implying that the Ethereum Foundation had the ability to unilaterally alter the blockchain for everybody. But that's not really true. While anyone can hard-fork the blockchain, that doesn't mean that anybody else is going to accept the new fork. In fact, a bunch of people revolted against the Ethereum Foundation's decision and kept the old blockchain alive as a Ethereum Classic. Ultimately, it was the market that decided to recognize the Ethereum Foundation's fork as the winner.
- spookthesunset 9y ago
  > Ultimately, it was the market that decided to recognize the Ethereum Foundation's fork as the winner. So instead of a carefully designed system of law that has thousands of years of evolution to get where it is today, we'll just regress back to what is basically mob rule?
  - dorgo 9y ago
    Some call it mob rule. Others call it democracy..
  - nokcha 9y ago
    Any currency is only worth what the market values it at. (Yes, this is true for fiat currencies too, as evidenced by countries that have suffered hyperinflation.) You can still use Ethereum Classic if you really want to, but it has a significantly smaller userbase and market cap than the Ethereum Foundation's fork.
    - spookthesunset 9y ago
      > You can still use Ethereum Classic if you really want to, but it has a significantly smaller userbase and market cap than the Ethereum Foundation's fork. That is comforting if my mortgage or deed to my house was tied to a smart contract running on that platform.
  - 9y ago
vageli 9y ago
> Bitcoin is more than 10 years old. It is a mature tech that is still in search of a problem. I don't understand how this can be said with a straight face. Aeronautics, ballistics, these are examples of mature tech. I can't think of a single example of technology that was considered mature after a mere ten years.
- spookthesunset 9y ago
  Bitcoin is a data structure. It isn't like the invention of flush toilets, the standardized shipping container, or sliced bread. It's been on the market for 10 years and so far its only use seems to be a great way to run pump & dump penny stock scams....
  - dorgo 9y ago
    And the first plane could fly a distance of 60 meters after 10+ years of developement..
    - hndamien 9y ago
      And we went to the moon literally 56 years after that (the years of development).
  - tudorconstantin 9y ago
    It's a medium used for transferring a few billion $ daily. It's not the exclusive way to transfer value between people, but neither was the mechanized agriculture the sole way of growing plants in the beginning.

TeMPOraL 9y ago

>> digital property that cannot be reproduced for free. > Sure, all through the magic of using a medium sized country's worth of electricity.... Exactly. Also, I'd question if having more kinds of "property that cannot be reproduced for free" is a good thing. We have plenty of that already. The world becomes better as more things can be reproduced cheaper.

dorgo 9y ago
It's like saying free/easy dollar reproduction would make the world better.
- TeMPOraL 9y ago
  No. You can't eat replicated dollars. But you could eat replicated food, wear replicated clothes or drive a replicated car.

mpfundstein 9y ago

Bitcoin solves a problem. Ever used a dark web market. Good luck with Paypal

emodendroket 9y ago
If the problem it solves is "I need a way to buy illegal drugs, weapons, and fake IDs while evading the police," I think you can see obvious problems to mass-market adoption. I also wonder whether a system with a permanent, publicly accessible ledger is truly ideal for this application.
- golergka 9y ago
  It's already massively adopted in this field, like it or not. Buying drugs with bitcoin is mainstream; no drug dealer takes cash now.
  - emodendroket 9y ago
    Yes, but I don't think the Bitcoin pushers are telling us that it's going to revolutionize the world of buying heroin online.
  - Aloha 9y ago
    "no drug dealer takes cash now." seem hyperbole on its face.
  - hndamien 9y ago
    Cash is still more anonymous than BTC, just not as mobile. Monero is more anonymous and more mobile. This is what real dealers use over distance.
- mpfundstein 9y ago
  Spookyhesunset claimed that bitcoin still looks for a problem to solve. I showed that it did so. Whether its ethical or whatever doesnt matter. There is a huge market, period!

nokcha 9y ago

>"Immutable" as in "immutable up until the folks at the top decide to alter history to benefit themselves financially". See also - Ethereum & The DAO. You seem to be implying that the Ethereum Foundation had the ability to unilaterally alter the blockchain for everybody. But that's not really true. While anyone can hard-fork the blockchain, that doesn't mean that anybody else is going to accept the new fork. In fact, a bunch of people revolted against the Ethereum Foundation's decision and kept the old blockchain alive as a Ethereum Classic. Ultimately, it was the market that decided to recognize the Ethereum Foundation's fork as the winner.

spookthesunset 9y ago
> Ultimately, it was the market that decided to recognize the Ethereum Foundation's fork as the winner. So instead of a carefully designed system of law that has thousands of years of evolution to get where it is today, we'll just regress back to what is basically mob rule?
- dorgo 9y ago
  Some call it mob rule. Others call it democracy..
- nokcha 9y ago
  Any currency is only worth what the market values it at. (Yes, this is true for fiat currencies too, as evidenced by countries that have suffered hyperinflation.) You can still use Ethereum Classic if you really want to, but it has a significantly smaller userbase and market cap than the Ethereum Foundation's fork.
  - spookthesunset 9y ago
    > You can still use Ethereum Classic if you really want to, but it has a significantly smaller userbase and market cap than the Ethereum Foundation's fork. That is comforting if my mortgage or deed to my house was tied to a smart contract running on that platform.
- 9y ago

vageli 9y ago

> Bitcoin is more than 10 years old. It is a mature tech that is still in search of a problem. I don't understand how this can be said with a straight face. Aeronautics, ballistics, these are examples of mature tech. I can't think of a single example of technology that was considered mature after a mere ten years.

spookthesunset 9y ago
Bitcoin is a data structure. It isn't like the invention of flush toilets, the standardized shipping container, or sliced bread. It's been on the market for 10 years and so far its only use seems to be a great way to run pump & dump penny stock scams....
- dorgo 9y ago
  And the first plane could fly a distance of 60 meters after 10+ years of developement..
  - hndamien 9y ago
    And we went to the moon literally 56 years after that (the years of development).
- tudorconstantin 9y ago
  It's a medium used for transferring a few billion $ daily. It's not the exclusive way to transfer value between people, but neither was the mechanized agriculture the sole way of growing plants in the beginning.