4 ms·

To me, "manufacturing consent" is scarier. Fox News is ridiculous and everyone - _especially Fox News_ - knows it. The Washington Post is as you claim, which f

To me, "manufacturing consent" is scarier. Fox News is ridiculous and everyone - _especially Fox News_ - knows it. The Washington Post is as you claim, which feels dangerous. The same with the Times (and the Journal on any non-free market health policy) in the modern era - there's a lot that's left out: important context is intentionally omitted to shape the narrative or to produce an angle, which is much more malicious. Fox News/HuffPo/Breitbart/TPM don't scare me because they're somewhere between junkfood and supermarket tabloids. It's the people who lie when they appear to tell the truth - like WSJ coverage of any single payer country - that freak me out.

projectileboy 8y ago
While I agree with you to a certain extent, I feel you may be underestimating just how much sway Fox News, conservative talk radio, and Facebook have with rural white Americans. When you (intentionally or not) only get your information from one source, at some point it seems you stop questioning it.
nkrisc 8y ago
I think outright falsehoods will always be more dangerous than "lies by omission." Though leaving out certain facts may make the remaining facts more persuasive one way or another, the remaining facts are still, by their nature, true and open to interpretation by the viewer.
jacquesm 8y ago
> To me, "manufacturing consent" is scarier. I don't know about that. The way in which Fox News now makes policy by influencing that 'audience of one' is having a real and direct impact on the world far outside of the United States. As for malice: I think that purposefully destroying your country in order to pocket some $ is far more malicious than shaping public opinion, even though of course I would much rather have that people would really take the time to educate themselves on the various issues and that we would all follow the Swiss model of Democracy - in my opinion the only country that currently gets it right. That's a pipe dream given the degree to which people typically wish to invest in the political process but that's the thing to strive for, even if it takes another couple of decades to get there. And in Switzerland the media are of a fairly high quality for much the same reason: the electorate is pretty smart there and very hard to dupe.
wycy 8y ago
This became painfully clear to me particularly during the 2016 primaries. I watched as news organizations I formerly respected--CNN, NYT, NPR, WaPo--shamelessly twisted facts and spun deliberatly misleading narratives, even on their front pages. CNN now acts indignant when Trump calls them fake news, but because of what they did, they've made him not entirely wrong, and I'm annoyed that they gave him that ammunition. I think the best way to combat fake news is to have trusted, respected news organizations. But now both the right and the left no longer fully trust these organizations, so people have started looking elsewhere. IMO, the only way to fix it is for these organizations to start reporting honestly to try to regain our trust---so I think fake news is going to continue to be a problem. Disclaimer: I know that CNN/NYT/NPR/WaPo propaganda is nothing compared to Fox News/conservative media. But it was misleading enough to shatter the trust of many people, including me.
- jacquesm 8y ago
  > shamelessly twisted facts and spun deliberatly misleading narratives, even on their front pages. Examples?
- s2g 8y ago
  > But it was misleading enough to shatter the trust of many people, including me. Which story was so fake that you can't trust them anymore? Honestly, I think people like you are a big part of the problem. OH you know that places like Breitbart are worse, but you just can't bring yourself to trust the Washington post. Do you not see how much that sort of attitude contributes to the much bigger problem?
  - wycy 8y ago
    I mean there were constant examples throughout 2016, but here was a fun one to rewatch: https://www.realclearpolitics.com/video/2016/05/17/cenk_ugyur_cnn_never_showed_you_what_really_happened_at_nevada_dem_convention.html https://www.realclearpolitics.com/video/2016/05/17/cenk_ugyu... In the wake of Wikileaks revealing that what CNN called a baseless conspiracy theory was actually true, this was a fun trip down memory lane.
s2g 8y ago
> Fox News is ridiculous and everyone > Fox News/HuffPo/Breitbart/TPM don't scare me because they're somewhere between junkfood and supermarket tabloids and yet fox news was the most watched cable network for how long?

projectileboy 8y ago

While I agree with you to a certain extent, I feel you may be underestimating just how much sway Fox News, conservative talk radio, and Facebook have with rural white Americans. When you (intentionally or not) only get your information from one source, at some point it seems you stop questioning it.

nkrisc 8y ago

I think outright falsehoods will always be more dangerous than "lies by omission." Though leaving out certain facts may make the remaining facts more persuasive one way or another, the remaining facts are still, by their nature, true and open to interpretation by the viewer.

jacquesm 8y ago

> To me, "manufacturing consent" is scarier. I don't know about that. The way in which Fox News now makes policy by influencing that 'audience of one' is having a real and direct impact on the world far outside of the United States. As for malice: I think that purposefully destroying your country in order to pocket some $ is far more malicious than shaping public opinion, even though of course I would much rather have that people would really take the time to educate themselves on the various issues and that we would all follow the Swiss model of Democracy - in my opinion the only country that currently gets it right. That's a pipe dream given the degree to which people typically wish to invest in the political process but that's the thing to strive for, even if it takes another couple of decades to get there. And in Switzerland the media are of a fairly high quality for much the same reason: the electorate is pretty smart there and very hard to dupe.

wycy 8y ago

This became painfully clear to me particularly during the 2016 primaries. I watched as news organizations I formerly respected--CNN, NYT, NPR, WaPo--shamelessly twisted facts and spun deliberatly misleading narratives, even on their front pages. CNN now acts indignant when Trump calls them fake news, but because of what they did, they've made him not entirely wrong, and I'm annoyed that they gave him that ammunition. I think the best way to combat fake news is to have trusted, respected news organizations. But now both the right and the left no longer fully trust these organizations, so people have started looking elsewhere. IMO, the only way to fix it is for these organizations to start reporting honestly to try to regain our trust---so I think fake news is going to continue to be a problem. Disclaimer: I know that CNN/NYT/NPR/WaPo propaganda is nothing compared to Fox News/conservative media. But it was misleading enough to shatter the trust of many people, including me.

jacquesm 8y ago
> shamelessly twisted facts and spun deliberatly misleading narratives, even on their front pages. Examples?
s2g 8y ago
> But it was misleading enough to shatter the trust of many people, including me. Which story was so fake that you can't trust them anymore? Honestly, I think people like you are a big part of the problem. OH you know that places like Breitbart are worse, but you just can't bring yourself to trust the Washington post. Do you not see how much that sort of attitude contributes to the much bigger problem?
- wycy 8y ago
  I mean there were constant examples throughout 2016, but here was a fun one to rewatch: https://www.realclearpolitics.com/video/2016/05/17/cenk_ugyur_cnn_never_showed_you_what_really_happened_at_nevada_dem_convention.html https://www.realclearpolitics.com/video/2016/05/17/cenk_ugyu... In the wake of Wikileaks revealing that what CNN called a baseless conspiracy theory was actually true, this was a fun trip down memory lane.

s2g 8y ago

> Fox News is ridiculous and everyone > Fox News/HuffPo/Breitbart/TPM don't scare me because they're somewhere between junkfood and supermarket tabloids and yet fox news was the most watched cable network for how long?