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The truth that I have seen is that many Americans suffer from some type of ailment that traditional medicine offers no elucidation of the cause. It could be di

The truth that I have seen is that many Americans suffer from some type of ailment that traditional medicine offers no elucidation of the cause. It could be diet, lack of exercise, mental health but there is not explicit test to say, "yes, you have ailment X because of Y." So what is one to do? IMHO, the best one can do is to persevere and try to survive the best they can. One way of doing that (and I think a very productive way) is to be a scientist of your body and try different things. For some exercise works, for some vitamins, for others a certain type of diet. I will not judge another for trying to take care of themselves as best they can. However, I will judge against how scientific they are about doing so to a degree only to critique their methods in hopes they can reach a state of reasonable comfort if they havent already obtained it. Spend an afternoon reading examine.com. Follow the studies. Read conflicting studies. Read about placebo. You will see that these supplements do help a significant portion of the populate for condition X. Not everyone though and likely because conditions X is really a superset of conditions X0, X1, ... XN. Until we can elucidate condition X into its true subcomponents, I think Americans will continue to seek their supplements.

AstralStorm 9y ago
The whole problem with being your own scientist and blind testing things is the potentially long transitions to deficiency. And then there is the matter of spotting problems. Feel like filling in a questionnaire 4 times a day? (A full dietary and extra of "feel" plus any ailments. Do extended bloodwork every some time.) Then knowing how to apply statistics properly? This is not viable for most people even with modern tools... On the other hand it is a decent way to lose weight by pervasive tracking according to a few studies.
- ipunchghosts 9y ago
  > Feel like filling in a questionnaire 4 times a day? I'm currently working on a paper showing you can track 2 things every day (total of 3 measurements) and make quite an improvement for a common health condition. > Then knowing how to apply statistics properly? Yes and no. The ultimate gauge is how the person feels. If its placebo then so what. If they can afford it, who am I to say its wrong. Also, many intelligent people are involved in the supplement movement and beginning to organize well and document. Applying an ANOVA isn't that difficult to do. Any large university will also have a statistical consulting center which you can visit to have them review your "tests" and explain a good way to do the stats (I've done this). > On the other hand it is a decent way to lose weight by pervasive tracking according to a few studies. Yes, you are correct.
  - fouc 9y ago
    Can you reveal what the measurements are?
  - pdpi 9y ago
    > The ultimate gauge is how the person feels. By that metric, psychics saying they can talk to your loved ones can be morally justifiable.
    - jonnybgood 9y ago
      I think the context is in how the person feels physically and psychologically in the long-term. Psychics seem to market to those who have a short-term life issue like needing closure from a dead loved one or needing to know if their luck is going to change.
    - mr_overalls 9y ago
      On the other hand, completely ignoring subjective comfort is also demonstrably absurd.
    - sp332 9y ago
      You can still tell them the truth. You can say "we don't know if the supplement is doing anything useful chemically, but the act of taking it seems to help you." I wouldn't have any trouble morally justifying that.
    - sewercake 9y ago
      I think you're understating people's ability to listen to their own body, and using an ungenerous definition of 'feeling'. Listening to your body is a skill that can be developed over time. Several years ago, I did not pay attention to, or was not aware of, any relation between what I ate, and how my body felt afterwards, what things looked like on the other end, etcetera. After starting to work out and taking my health seriously, I spent more time tracking things like 'how does food X agree with my stomach? How does it affect my energy levels when I have sugar in the morning?', and learned a lot. There are foods now I'm very hesitant to touch, that I would have eaten without a second thought several years ago, because I now know they affect me personally in undesirable ways. This is not to say that one should eschew the scientific literature, or their doctor's advice. You should just take both into account.
- sametmax 9y ago
  It sure is not perfect, but it beats doing nothing.
benpiper 9y ago
Great points. The very existence of the placebo effect proves that "inert" substances do, in fact, work for some people, even if the effect is purely psychological. Some vitamins do work for some people. And science is about finding what works.
- blacksmith_tb 9y ago
  Not "purely" psychological though - that would be a delusion, which we presumably don't consider 'working'. Perhaps it would better to say that while the effect is somatic, the cause is psychological?
  - benpiper 9y ago
    It could be either.
dominotw 9y ago
You exactly nailed the problem on the head. Modern medicine is totally off track we have specialists that zoom into to a particular part of the body missing forest for the trees. I see tons of supplements in costco for joints , apparently only solution that modern medicine has come up for "arthritis" is taking crap loads of NSAIDS which often make the problem worse and cause new ones like gastro troubles, now you are taking NSAIDS and reflux meds which in turn cause more troubles. Everyone goes on pretending that this is some sort of cutting edge "modern medicine" . Disgusting. The state of affairs is so ridiculous that there are standup comedy routines about it. Here is one from Louis C.K https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TXXWwllCS18 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TXXWwllCS18 edit: curious why my comment was downvoted.
- deleted 9y ago
  [deleted]
jfv 9y ago
I think this is how we should revamp science education. Teach people how to examine the evidence and how one can fool themselves. Less inclined plane problems, more scientific reasoning.

AstralStorm 9y ago

The whole problem with being your own scientist and blind testing things is the potentially long transitions to deficiency. And then there is the matter of spotting problems. Feel like filling in a questionnaire 4 times a day? (A full dietary and extra of "feel" plus any ailments. Do extended bloodwork every some time.) Then knowing how to apply statistics properly? This is not viable for most people even with modern tools... On the other hand it is a decent way to lose weight by pervasive tracking according to a few studies.

ipunchghosts 9y ago
> Feel like filling in a questionnaire 4 times a day? I'm currently working on a paper showing you can track 2 things every day (total of 3 measurements) and make quite an improvement for a common health condition. > Then knowing how to apply statistics properly? Yes and no. The ultimate gauge is how the person feels. If its placebo then so what. If they can afford it, who am I to say its wrong. Also, many intelligent people are involved in the supplement movement and beginning to organize well and document. Applying an ANOVA isn't that difficult to do. Any large university will also have a statistical consulting center which you can visit to have them review your "tests" and explain a good way to do the stats (I've done this). > On the other hand it is a decent way to lose weight by pervasive tracking according to a few studies. Yes, you are correct.
- fouc 9y ago
  Can you reveal what the measurements are?
- pdpi 9y ago
  > The ultimate gauge is how the person feels. By that metric, psychics saying they can talk to your loved ones can be morally justifiable.
  - jonnybgood 9y ago
    I think the context is in how the person feels physically and psychologically in the long-term. Psychics seem to market to those who have a short-term life issue like needing closure from a dead loved one or needing to know if their luck is going to change.
  - mr_overalls 9y ago
    On the other hand, completely ignoring subjective comfort is also demonstrably absurd.
  - sp332 9y ago
    You can still tell them the truth. You can say "we don't know if the supplement is doing anything useful chemically, but the act of taking it seems to help you." I wouldn't have any trouble morally justifying that.
  - sewercake 9y ago
    I think you're understating people's ability to listen to their own body, and using an ungenerous definition of 'feeling'. Listening to your body is a skill that can be developed over time. Several years ago, I did not pay attention to, or was not aware of, any relation between what I ate, and how my body felt afterwards, what things looked like on the other end, etcetera. After starting to work out and taking my health seriously, I spent more time tracking things like 'how does food X agree with my stomach? How does it affect my energy levels when I have sugar in the morning?', and learned a lot. There are foods now I'm very hesitant to touch, that I would have eaten without a second thought several years ago, because I now know they affect me personally in undesirable ways. This is not to say that one should eschew the scientific literature, or their doctor's advice. You should just take both into account.
sametmax 9y ago
It sure is not perfect, but it beats doing nothing.

benpiper 9y ago

Great points. The very existence of the placebo effect proves that "inert" substances do, in fact, work for some people, even if the effect is purely psychological. Some vitamins do work for some people. And science is about finding what works.

blacksmith_tb 9y ago
Not "purely" psychological though - that would be a delusion, which we presumably don't consider 'working'. Perhaps it would better to say that while the effect is somatic, the cause is psychological?
- benpiper 9y ago
  It could be either.

dominotw 9y ago

You exactly nailed the problem on the head. Modern medicine is totally off track we have specialists that zoom into to a particular part of the body missing forest for the trees. I see tons of supplements in costco for joints , apparently only solution that modern medicine has come up for "arthritis" is taking crap loads of NSAIDS which often make the problem worse and cause new ones like gastro troubles, now you are taking NSAIDS and reflux meds which in turn cause more troubles. Everyone goes on pretending that this is some sort of cutting edge "modern medicine" . Disgusting. The state of affairs is so ridiculous that there are standup comedy routines about it. Here is one from Louis C.K https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TXXWwllCS18 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TXXWwllCS18 edit: curious why my comment was downvoted.

deleted 9y ago
[deleted]

jfv 9y ago

I think this is how we should revamp science education. Teach people how to examine the evidence and how one can fool themselves. Less inclined plane problems, more scientific reasoning.