7 ms·
They don’t get raw DNS traffic. Ever.
by eastdakota 9y ago
They don’t get raw DNS traffic. Ever.
- mirimir 9y agoBut that's just a Cloudflare policy, isn't it? Or are you arguing that even Cloudflare couldn't get raw DNS traffic?
- eastdakota 9y agoThat’s our policy and we’ve hired outside auditors to ensure we’re honoring it. If you have suggestions of what else we can do to prove we’re a company of our word, LMK.
- the_seraphim 9y agoyou could hire auditors who aren't currently facing criminal charges for corruption? like it's not even been 2 years...
- mirimir 9y agoOh, I didn't realize that you're a CloudFlare cofounder. I don't mean to question CloudFlare's integrity. It's just that, for claims about privacy, I'd rather depend on more than trusting any one party.
- eastdakota 9y agoGreat. Use 1.1.1.1 and 8.8.8.8. You don’t depend on one party now?
- mirimir 9y agoYes, thanks.
- celticninja 9y agoEven if you just use 1.1.1.1 you know you have 2 parties, cloudflare and their auditor.
- mirimir 9y agoThere is that argument. But both are likely vulnerable to coercion from some adversaries. And of course, that's always a risk.
- thinkingemote 9y agoWill these auditors guarantee that you won't wake up one morning after a troublesome sleep and start monitoring this to protect us against Nazis? Because that might be good to ensure we believe your word.
- StavrosK 9y agoI have a problem with these comments because they're basically a false dichotomy. No, CloudFlare can't ensure they play fair. Can your ISP? Who can? Because these sorts of comments read to me as "yeah, you're the best right now, but are you perfect? No.". Nobody claimed perfection, and there's value in being the best.
- thinkingemote 9y agoCloudfares CEO was guaranteeing that they have an external auditors to ensure the company keeps its word. I'm asking whether the same auditors can ensure that the CEO himself won't decide one morning to go against this word wrt this topic. In the same way that a ToS might state "we will never sell your data to third parties" and a CEO can't break that promise, what guarantee beyond "some external people are looking at what we do" and "oh, just trust me" do we actually have? Im asking if the auditors will also guarantee the CEOs word. This is relevant as the CEO has previously woken up one morning after a troublesome sleep and it has been argued, gone against his word (for good and anti nazi reasons). Many argue that he was entirely within his right to do so, and he was! So in this case, would he be entirely within his right to start monitoring all that data. As he asks, paraphrasing: "what more can I do to ensure my word is good."
- dx034 9y agoI'd bet that if they one day drop that promise from their page they'll quickly hit the HN front page. If you don't trust, just monitor their policy page for diffs.
- mirimir 9y agoPrecisely. There's no perfect. OK, so I use IVPN. I've known a principal for many years. I write stuff for them. And I trust them to protect my privacy. More than any other VPN service. I also trust a few others, almost as much. And way more than I trust my ISP. But I never depend on any one of them. I use nested chains. That's my no means perfect, because routes are relatively static, unlike Tor with its frequently changing circuits. But the basic idea is the same. Compromise would depend on collusion, perhaps forced, of multiple parties. Or some serious traffic analysis. Here, there's CloudFlare, its auditors, and perhaps Google. So maybe there is distributed trust in that. But still, I'm happier to put more independent parties between me and them. Tor, or at least a nested VPN chain.
- cesarb 9y agoWill they at least get processed information about the DNS traffic (like how much of it is normal recursive queries versus broken garbage which happened to go to port 53)?