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This was insightful to read, I have often wondered what the underlying thinking was with React. I also disagree with it, but... important to know the thinking f

This was insightful to read, I have often wondered what the underlying thinking was with React. I also disagree with it, but... important to know the thinking for sure. Also helps explain why it's been such a struggle and has been less than obvious to me. I look at react, and I see... shit. As an aside, I'm taking a deep dive reading u on the nuances of JS, so I'm reading along here and I get whats going on at a technical level with the JS; but the actual react code... does not jive with me. Remember when we though SOAP was cool? React kinda feels like that to me. I don't think it really represents a way forward in programming. But you know - I respect that there might be people who totally jive with react, who's brains work differently from mine and see nothing but awesome. This also makes me so, so thankful that I am a Rails developer. React is surely good for certain things, but developer happiness and productivity i think are not among them.

eropple 9y ago
Why do you "disagree with" the idea of functional projection of application state into views? Because that's all React...is. And, as a Ruby developer going to React, I overwhelmingly disagree with regards to both developer happiness and productivity; I write better, more testable code, faster, when building out a React frontend than I have in any other system I've ever used, bar none.
- meesterdude 9y ago
  why did you put 'disagree with' in quotes? I don't think its an idea that accurately encapsulates what a UI is. I'm not saying thats not what drives reacts philosophy... I just think there's more to it. If we're talking about first principles, I think that would a little blunt of a perspective.
  - Vinnl 9y ago
    I think the quotes were because they... Quoted you. Anyway, your comments don't really add anything unless you share what you think is an accurate representation of UI - otherwise, there's nothing we can learn from it, other than that you disagree with the design of React.
mercer 9y ago
Why do you disagree with it?
- meesterdude 9y ago
  Lets say, it's not in alignment with the particular set of values I hold as a developer.
  - mercer 9y ago
    Could you elaborate? Or if not, I'm extremely curious why you seem to be dodging a question like this... EDIT: maybe it's 'just picking a fight' for the sake of it? https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=16430826 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=16430826
    - meesterdude 9y ago
      Nothing sneaky; Nobody wants to read the giant wall of text I have to say. So... i tried to give a summary of it. I feel one way, others feel a different way... who's right? who's wrong? all a matter of what matters to you. For what matters to me, react is totally wrong. I am still trying to "see the light" but I have yet to.
      - mercer 9y ago
        But then what's the point of taking the effort of writing it down and sending it out into the world? Honest question.
        fapjacks 9y ago
        To solicit insight that might help them better understand the perspective? That's why I would make a similar post, anyway.
        kaoD 9y ago
        How can anyone give any insight about their opinion if they don't state it? It just looks like cargo culting and/or flame baiting.
Marazan 9y ago
No one ever thought SOAP was cool.
- blowski 9y ago
  I can definitely remember SOAP being the next big thing that was going to solve all our problems, around 2002.
  - Marazan 9y ago
    I suppose SOAP was wrapped up in the whole Service Oriented Architecture thingy that was going on then. The faculty at my university were... sceptical of the approach so I suppose I was in an environment that wasn't going to be pro SOAP when it came along.
    - lolive 9y ago
      SOAP ensures that the service definition, the client implementation and the server implementation are fully synchronized. And types are fully transmitted. (except for collections and null, sic!) How can you do that otherwise? PS: i agree that WADL or Swagger can do something similar, more elegantly than SOAP. But can we agree that there is a real need to enforce the coherence between the client and the server ?
Marazan 9y ago
To be honest, React is so simple I don't understand what there is to be repulsed by.
- CosmicShadow 9y ago
  Facebook
untog 9y ago
> This also makes me so, so thankful that I am a Rails developer. React is surely good for certain things, but developer happiness and productivity i think are not among them. I assume you haven't done much front-end engineering then. Because for all of the many legitimate gripes with React, developer happiness and productivity is one of its strengths. Going from something like manual Backbone views to React components was a breath of fresh air when React was released (there are now other frameworks that'll do the same, but still). Rails is not a front-end framework, so basically you're saying "I am thankful I am a backend developer, not a frontend one".

eropple 9y ago

Why do you "disagree with" the idea of functional projection of application state into views? Because that's all React...is. And, as a Ruby developer going to React, I overwhelmingly disagree with regards to both developer happiness and productivity; I write better, more testable code, faster, when building out a React frontend than I have in any other system I've ever used, bar none.

meesterdude 9y ago
why did you put 'disagree with' in quotes? I don't think its an idea that accurately encapsulates what a UI is. I'm not saying thats not what drives reacts philosophy... I just think there's more to it. If we're talking about first principles, I think that would a little blunt of a perspective.
- Vinnl 9y ago
  I think the quotes were because they... Quoted you. Anyway, your comments don't really add anything unless you share what you think is an accurate representation of UI - otherwise, there's nothing we can learn from it, other than that you disagree with the design of React.

mercer 9y ago

Why do you disagree with it?

meesterdude 9y ago
Lets say, it's not in alignment with the particular set of values I hold as a developer.
- mercer 9y ago
  Could you elaborate? Or if not, I'm extremely curious why you seem to be dodging a question like this... EDIT: maybe it's 'just picking a fight' for the sake of it? https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=16430826 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=16430826
  - meesterdude 9y ago
    Nothing sneaky; Nobody wants to read the giant wall of text I have to say. So... i tried to give a summary of it. I feel one way, others feel a different way... who's right? who's wrong? all a matter of what matters to you. For what matters to me, react is totally wrong. I am still trying to "see the light" but I have yet to.
    - mercer 9y ago
      But then what's the point of taking the effort of writing it down and sending it out into the world? Honest question.
      - fapjacks 9y ago
        To solicit insight that might help them better understand the perspective? That's why I would make a similar post, anyway.
        kaoD 9y ago
        How can anyone give any insight about their opinion if they don't state it? It just looks like cargo culting and/or flame baiting.

Marazan 9y ago

No one ever thought SOAP was cool.

blowski 9y ago
I can definitely remember SOAP being the next big thing that was going to solve all our problems, around 2002.
- Marazan 9y ago
  I suppose SOAP was wrapped up in the whole Service Oriented Architecture thingy that was going on then. The faculty at my university were... sceptical of the approach so I suppose I was in an environment that wasn't going to be pro SOAP when it came along.
  - lolive 9y ago
    SOAP ensures that the service definition, the client implementation and the server implementation are fully synchronized. And types are fully transmitted. (except for collections and null, sic!) How can you do that otherwise? PS: i agree that WADL or Swagger can do something similar, more elegantly than SOAP. But can we agree that there is a real need to enforce the coherence between the client and the server ?

Marazan 9y ago

To be honest, React is so simple I don't understand what there is to be repulsed by.

CosmicShadow 9y ago
Facebook

untog 9y ago

> This also makes me so, so thankful that I am a Rails developer. React is surely good for certain things, but developer happiness and productivity i think are not among them. I assume you haven't done much front-end engineering then. Because for all of the many legitimate gripes with React, developer happiness and productivity is one of its strengths. Going from something like manual Backbone views to React components was a breath of fresh air when React was released (there are now other frameworks that'll do the same, but still). Rails is not a front-end framework, so basically you're saying "I am thankful I am a backend developer, not a frontend one".