5 ms·

My state has that information available from the tax assessors office as well, however land can still be owned by a corporation and it can be slightly out of da

My state has that information available from the tax assessors office as well, however land can still be owned by a corporation and it can be slightly out of date and it's not clear who is actually responsible for the property and what it's status is if the corporation doesn't want you to find out. In my neighborhood, for example, there is some land still possibly owned by the developer, a hedge fund, and another company, but it has changed hands multiple times recently, often enough that there is little confidence in the current publicly reported documentation. They have used this to their advantage to avoid taking responsibility for HOA obligations that they are failing to meet. It takes a level of motivation to push through legal proceedings and a level of cooperation from the local government that quite simply, no one is willing to give. Even if one got that far, I'd imagine that the legal complexity of the various real estate contracts involve give them all plenty of ammunition to stall the process and suggest that somebody else may actually have responsibility for the problem until you give up. Tax assessor's information is not actually enough for the buck to stop with anyone.

jacquesm 9y ago
Start squatting on it, the real owners will turn up pronto :)
- cbogie 9y ago
  I have a hunch their henchmen will turn up first.
  - jacquesm 9y ago
    Good point.
  - evgen 9y ago
    I would guess that said henchmen would need some sort of proof that they are acting on the authority of the rightful owner or else they would just be another group of squatters.
- TallGuyShort 9y ago
  That's actually an interesting angle. I'm sure you weren't being entirely serious, but let's go there. I obviously can't be personally present a significant portion of the time, so my first thought it is to leave a substantial amount of personal property there, say, an RV. What stops them from having the vehicle towed such that it's my expense to retrieve it, or simply assuming ownership of the "abandoned" RV and pocketing the proceeds? It's undeveloped land, so I suppose I could start planting vegetables on it. But as another commenter said, I'd bet they simply send henchman to destroy my work.
  - jacquesm 9y ago
    It was definitely tongue in cheek, the point was that it is land, they can't move it and defending their claim to the land visibly requires them to break cover. Henchmen have higher ups. In many places if you squat on a place long enough it becomes yours.
    - michaelt 9y ago
      defending their claim to the land visibly requires them to break cover. I realise you're talking to TallGuyShort about HOAs, but when it comes to anonymously owned property in London (presumably including 221b Baker Street) things can be structured to avoid this. What you do is have the building directly owned/managed by (something equivalent to) a Real Estate Investment Trust [1], then have 100% of the shares of that REIT owned by a company in BVI/Panama/Cayman Islands, where that company doesn't have to disclose its shareholders. Or if you have to disclose beneficial owners with more than 25% of shares, have 5 anonymous companies own 20% each, and claim you just don't know if those anonymous companies have the same ultimate owner. Thus, the REIT exists to defend their claim to the land, collect rent, manage and maintain the property - just nobody knows who owns the REIT. Nobody wants to eliminate the property-owned-and-managed-by-a-company-owned-by-other-companies structure, as it's how pension funds/retail investors invest in property. So it's a tough question how to regulate this properly. [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/REIT https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/REIT
      - 9y ago

jacquesm 9y ago

Start squatting on it, the real owners will turn up pronto :)

cbogie 9y ago
I have a hunch their henchmen will turn up first.
- jacquesm 9y ago
  Good point.
- evgen 9y ago
  I would guess that said henchmen would need some sort of proof that they are acting on the authority of the rightful owner or else they would just be another group of squatters.
TallGuyShort 9y ago
That's actually an interesting angle. I'm sure you weren't being entirely serious, but let's go there. I obviously can't be personally present a significant portion of the time, so my first thought it is to leave a substantial amount of personal property there, say, an RV. What stops them from having the vehicle towed such that it's my expense to retrieve it, or simply assuming ownership of the "abandoned" RV and pocketing the proceeds? It's undeveloped land, so I suppose I could start planting vegetables on it. But as another commenter said, I'd bet they simply send henchman to destroy my work.
- jacquesm 9y ago
  It was definitely tongue in cheek, the point was that it is land, they can't move it and defending their claim to the land visibly requires them to break cover. Henchmen have higher ups. In many places if you squat on a place long enough it becomes yours.
  - michaelt 9y ago
    defending their claim to the land visibly requires them to break cover. I realise you're talking to TallGuyShort about HOAs, but when it comes to anonymously owned property in London (presumably including 221b Baker Street) things can be structured to avoid this. What you do is have the building directly owned/managed by (something equivalent to) a Real Estate Investment Trust [1], then have 100% of the shares of that REIT owned by a company in BVI/Panama/Cayman Islands, where that company doesn't have to disclose its shareholders. Or if you have to disclose beneficial owners with more than 25% of shares, have 5 anonymous companies own 20% each, and claim you just don't know if those anonymous companies have the same ultimate owner. Thus, the REIT exists to defend their claim to the land, collect rent, manage and maintain the property - just nobody knows who owns the REIT. Nobody wants to eliminate the property-owned-and-managed-by-a-company-owned-by-other-companies structure, as it's how pension funds/retail investors invest in property. So it's a tough question how to regulate this properly. [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/REIT https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/REIT
    - 9y ago