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Mbs is not trying to make himself look like a positive transformative figure, he actually is one. The war in Yemen is equally the fault of Saudi Arabia and Iran

Mbs is not trying to make himself look like a positive transformative figure, he actually is one. The war in Yemen is equally the fault of Saudi Arabia and Iran but I don't hear anyone calling for sanctions on Iran. I am astounded that such ignorance could come from one of the worlds pillars of higher education. Consolidation of power such as that recently performed by mbs is routine and it was done in a very humane way indeed compared to other instances. When you consider that not properly consolidating power could lead to the compromising of the state and perhaps set the groundwork for the destruction of the state, his actions seem quite reasonable

ascorbic 9y ago
> I don't hear anyone calling for sanctions on Iran You're not listening very hard then.
- tempagain567i 9y ago
  Among liberal circles like hn and MIT,Jesus Christ dude. But appealing to you people is useless because my polite and correct comment gets flagged, flagged for nothing more than offending someone. Iran's influence is overblown? Are you serious? Where are rebels getting their supplies? If Iranian support ceased completely the resistance would dry up and the whole thing would grind to a total and complete stop. Same more or less for saudi Arabia. Iran has committed directly and indirectly heinous terrorist crimes that match or exceed the acts commuted by Saudi/us. This is basically a war between two countries and as has always been true, trying to reduce the thing into a framework of good and evil or right and wrong is a fools errand and an intellectual molestation of the truth. In actual fact mbs is a force for reform. He is perusing reform both because it is plainly in the best interest of his empire and because this is a trend that goes all the way to the beginning with for example the introduction of television to the masses despite huge resistance from religious bodies. Anyone who claims to favor reform and simultaneously condemns mbs knows nothing about the history or international politics of Saudi Arabia. I have been watching mobs and his behaviour indicates very positive direction indeed. Do your homework. Astoundingly the people at MIT seem to have not done theirs.
return0 9y ago
From what i get from american media, they like MBS including the liberal ones (perhaps even more), and they certainly help to paint a positive picture of him as a "radical innovator" of his country, when he brings the lowest of the low hanging fruit such as giving women the right to drive.
ben509 9y ago
> When you consider that not properly consolidating power could lead to the compromising of the state > I am astounded that such ignorance could come from one of the worlds pillars of higher education." You bring up some interesting points. I'm not remotely familiar with MBS, so this is just pointing out why in general you shouldn't expect a reformer to look like a reformer. Lincoln by his own words absolutely looked like a bastard who didn't give a damn about slavery, and nevertheless set in motion events to free slaves. And, of course, to get enough popular support, he couldn't be too outwardly anti-slavery. That's inherent in statecraft: to get things to change, you expect to have to play the people who don't want them to change. And if a reformer is fooling the people whose agenda is to stymie reform, you should expect a less interested third-party to be fooled. So if MBS was a reformer, it shouldn't be surprised that educated people might study him quite carefully and not remotely catch on that he's enacting reforms. Likewise, it's just as possible he is a total bastard, the MIT students are right, and you're getting suckered. Again, I haven't read up on MBS at all, this is just a practical reality to keep in mind when you're evaluating a reform-oriented politician or official.
burkaman 9y ago
> I don't hear anyone calling for sanctions on Iran The US president? Israel? The new US national security adviser to the president? An enormous number of existing sanctions currently imposed by the US, EU, and UN?
jadedhacker 9y ago
I don't know much about the Yemen civil war, but I've heard that Iranian influence is overblown. In any case, even if Iran is behind the other side, what Saudi and the US are doing is unconscionable. Here's an example of this other take: https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/monkey-cage/wp/2016/05/16/contrary-to-popular-belief-houthis-arent-iranian-proxies https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/monkey-cage/wp/2016/05/1...
tempagain567i 9y ago
Can dang or someone please unflag my comment? I haven't violated any guidelines and it's important that an opinion be heard that goes against the dominant narrative.

ascorbic 9y ago

> I don't hear anyone calling for sanctions on Iran You're not listening very hard then.

tempagain567i 9y ago
Among liberal circles like hn and MIT,Jesus Christ dude. But appealing to you people is useless because my polite and correct comment gets flagged, flagged for nothing more than offending someone. Iran's influence is overblown? Are you serious? Where are rebels getting their supplies? If Iranian support ceased completely the resistance would dry up and the whole thing would grind to a total and complete stop. Same more or less for saudi Arabia. Iran has committed directly and indirectly heinous terrorist crimes that match or exceed the acts commuted by Saudi/us. This is basically a war between two countries and as has always been true, trying to reduce the thing into a framework of good and evil or right and wrong is a fools errand and an intellectual molestation of the truth. In actual fact mbs is a force for reform. He is perusing reform both because it is plainly in the best interest of his empire and because this is a trend that goes all the way to the beginning with for example the introduction of television to the masses despite huge resistance from religious bodies. Anyone who claims to favor reform and simultaneously condemns mbs knows nothing about the history or international politics of Saudi Arabia. I have been watching mobs and his behaviour indicates very positive direction indeed. Do your homework. Astoundingly the people at MIT seem to have not done theirs.

return0 9y ago

From what i get from american media, they like MBS including the liberal ones (perhaps even more), and they certainly help to paint a positive picture of him as a "radical innovator" of his country, when he brings the lowest of the low hanging fruit such as giving women the right to drive.

ben509 9y ago

> When you consider that not properly consolidating power could lead to the compromising of the state > I am astounded that such ignorance could come from one of the worlds pillars of higher education." You bring up some interesting points. I'm not remotely familiar with MBS, so this is just pointing out why in general you shouldn't expect a reformer to look like a reformer. Lincoln by his own words absolutely looked like a bastard who didn't give a damn about slavery, and nevertheless set in motion events to free slaves. And, of course, to get enough popular support, he couldn't be too outwardly anti-slavery. That's inherent in statecraft: to get things to change, you expect to have to play the people who don't want them to change. And if a reformer is fooling the people whose agenda is to stymie reform, you should expect a less interested third-party to be fooled. So if MBS was a reformer, it shouldn't be surprised that educated people might study him quite carefully and not remotely catch on that he's enacting reforms. Likewise, it's just as possible he is a total bastard, the MIT students are right, and you're getting suckered. Again, I haven't read up on MBS at all, this is just a practical reality to keep in mind when you're evaluating a reform-oriented politician or official.

burkaman 9y ago

> I don't hear anyone calling for sanctions on Iran The US president? Israel? The new US national security adviser to the president? An enormous number of existing sanctions currently imposed by the US, EU, and UN?

jadedhacker 9y ago

I don't know much about the Yemen civil war, but I've heard that Iranian influence is overblown. In any case, even if Iran is behind the other side, what Saudi and the US are doing is unconscionable. Here's an example of this other take: https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/monkey-cage/wp/2016/05/16/contrary-to-popular-belief-houthis-arent-iranian-proxies https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/monkey-cage/wp/2016/05/1...

tempagain567i 9y ago

Can dang or someone please unflag my comment? I haven't violated any guidelines and it's important that an opinion be heard that goes against the dominant narrative.