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True. Also true: we often prefer the fantasy of symbolic action over the realization that we have no power over some situations. Often, small gains are a wedg

True. Also true: we often prefer the fantasy of symbolic action over the realization that we have no power over some situations. Often, small gains are a wedge that prevents real change. I know that probably needs support with examples for which I don't have time to provide, so let me just say that is just my view and I don't expect other people to share that idea.

KirinDave 9y ago
You say "often" but I confess I'm struggling to agree. I can't think of many times. And I'm quite frustrated with, for example, Sanders refusing to support moderate progress on gun control in preference to a hypothetical Big Action. If you do nothing, you did nothing. There is no strategic advantage to waiting forever for the perfect opportunity. Nor is that really how politics in my government works. It's by design an incremental process.
- scarecrowbob 9y ago
  Well, to be blunt, if Bernie vs. Clinton is your framework then you a) probably think that my far left politics are unrealistic to the point of insanity and b) have political goals that are well within the liberal mainstream of US politics. That's just a guess, and I'll own that I could be wrong. You are totally correct that there is no advantage in waiting for an opportunity or some perfect candidate. At the same time, things like welfare to work projects or DREAM acts are not solutions if you want the end of wage labor and the dissolution borders. I don't think electoral politics are going to be able achieve my political goals. Within your political spectrum, you are probably correct that ignoring the news and failing to phone bank are positions of privilege. Your politics aren't the only ones that people hold here. I don't expect you to concede to my point that your position indicates that, in the main, you believe that the system you are in "works"; most likely, you'd maintain that your desire to modify that system indicates your dissatisfaction, and that your anger towards the news and support of various reformist politicians is evidence of that dissatisfaction. Once again, those are my assumptions, and I could be wrong about your position. However, I simply don't believe that politics, as they work where I live, allow for the kinds of changes that I would need in order to feel that I live in a just, verdant, and equitable system. So I don't feel bad in ignoring the news and just doing my best to make things better where I am.
  - KirinDave 9y ago
    > Well, to be blunt, if Bernie vs. Clinton is your framework then you a) probably think that my far left politics are unrealistic to the point of insanity and b) have political goals that are well within the liberal mainstream of US politics. That's just a guess, and I'll own that I could be wrong. Oh dear, you seem to have misunderstood. I criticize his methods because he's both incompetent AND smug about it. Maybe your system would "work" better for me (and exist for you) if you ever did anything other than virtuous smirking at everyone around you, then imagining a more "verdant" world. I, for one, don't have religious opinions about politics. I don't even believe that undeniable human rights exist. It's what we all agree upon and what we can build, and the things I'd like to have for me, my community, and my family. But sure, scarecrowbob, if only we understood how leftist your inner monologue really is. I'm sure we'd all be shocked and awed.

KirinDave 9y ago

You say "often" but I confess I'm struggling to agree. I can't think of many times. And I'm quite frustrated with, for example, Sanders refusing to support moderate progress on gun control in preference to a hypothetical Big Action. If you do nothing, you did nothing. There is no strategic advantage to waiting forever for the perfect opportunity. Nor is that really how politics in my government works. It's by design an incremental process.

scarecrowbob 9y ago
Well, to be blunt, if Bernie vs. Clinton is your framework then you a) probably think that my far left politics are unrealistic to the point of insanity and b) have political goals that are well within the liberal mainstream of US politics. That's just a guess, and I'll own that I could be wrong. You are totally correct that there is no advantage in waiting for an opportunity or some perfect candidate. At the same time, things like welfare to work projects or DREAM acts are not solutions if you want the end of wage labor and the dissolution borders. I don't think electoral politics are going to be able achieve my political goals. Within your political spectrum, you are probably correct that ignoring the news and failing to phone bank are positions of privilege. Your politics aren't the only ones that people hold here. I don't expect you to concede to my point that your position indicates that, in the main, you believe that the system you are in "works"; most likely, you'd maintain that your desire to modify that system indicates your dissatisfaction, and that your anger towards the news and support of various reformist politicians is evidence of that dissatisfaction. Once again, those are my assumptions, and I could be wrong about your position. However, I simply don't believe that politics, as they work where I live, allow for the kinds of changes that I would need in order to feel that I live in a just, verdant, and equitable system. So I don't feel bad in ignoring the news and just doing my best to make things better where I am.
- KirinDave 9y ago
  > Well, to be blunt, if Bernie vs. Clinton is your framework then you a) probably think that my far left politics are unrealistic to the point of insanity and b) have political goals that are well within the liberal mainstream of US politics. That's just a guess, and I'll own that I could be wrong. Oh dear, you seem to have misunderstood. I criticize his methods because he's both incompetent AND smug about it. Maybe your system would "work" better for me (and exist for you) if you ever did anything other than virtuous smirking at everyone around you, then imagining a more "verdant" world. I, for one, don't have religious opinions about politics. I don't even believe that undeniable human rights exist. It's what we all agree upon and what we can build, and the things I'd like to have for me, my community, and my family. But sure, scarecrowbob, if only we understood how leftist your inner monologue really is. I'm sure we'd all be shocked and awed.