4 ms·

From what I've heard from people in companies that have implemented it, it basically devolves into "you can take off whenever your want but... we really need yo

From what I've heard from people in companies that have implemented it, it basically devolves into "you can take off whenever your want but... we really need you here due to crunch!" Basically it turns into a game of guilting people NOT to take any vacation time. Having guaranteed off time that can be scheduled well in advance and flexible working hours is way more reassuring. In my opinion, why not just be way more generous in how much PTO time employees accrue? If European companies can still function with employees taking up to a month off why is it such a big deal to be generous in this category?

jcadam 9y ago
My preference would be for a reasonable amount of PTO coupled with unlimited sick time, so getting the flu doesn't force me to choose between either giving up my planned summer vacation or coming into work sick :)
- noetic_techy 9y ago
  I second this. It just makes sense not to punish people who are truly sick. They end up coming in and infecting everyone. I'm saying be generous with TRUE vacation time.
  - jcadam 9y ago
    Yea, the current practice of lumping vacation and sick time all together in one bucket called "PTO" is asinine. It incentivizes coming to work sick. Here in the US, people would still come into work sick anyway to prove how much of a hardcore workaholic they are, but still...
- majewsky 9y ago
  As a German, I find the concept of "sick time" baffling. When I'm sick, I go to my doctor and get a note that allows me to stay away from work until I'm healthy. Employers are required by law to continue paying the full salary for at least 6 weeks, or longer if the employer chooses so (e.g. 6 months at my employer). After that, one receives sick pay from the health insurance (70% of the last salary). Actually, it's even better at my employer. When I feel like a cold is coming on, I just shoot a e-mail to my manager and stay home. I only have to submit a doctor's note at the third day of continuous absence. The manager does not get to argue against your staying home, although I guess that question would be asked if one would abuse this policy. Managers are generally supportive of the policy; they don't want sick people spreading their diseases to their colleagues.
  - ben1040 9y ago
    I worked for a US company that gave you an accrual of one sick day every month, with a maximum accrual of 120 days on the books. Sick days could be "verified" by presenting a doctor's note when you come back to work, or unverified, although you could only take up to five unverified sick days per calendar year. If you should use no sick days in a given calendar year, regardless of doctor's note or not, you would earn an additional vacation day for use in the following year. This set up a perverse incentive -- suppose you get sick, use some sick days, and bring back a doctor's note with you for it. You've lost your free vacation day for the next year, and you still have 5 allowable "unverified" days. You may as well now just "call in sick" on a few Fridays here and there to fill out your unverified sick day allowance, and give yourself some three day weekends.
Gustomaximus 9y ago
> If European companies can still function with employees taking up to a month off In many places it is 6 weeks annual leave.

jcadam 9y ago

My preference would be for a reasonable amount of PTO coupled with unlimited sick time, so getting the flu doesn't force me to choose between either giving up my planned summer vacation or coming into work sick :)

noetic_techy 9y ago
I second this. It just makes sense not to punish people who are truly sick. They end up coming in and infecting everyone. I'm saying be generous with TRUE vacation time.
- jcadam 9y ago
  Yea, the current practice of lumping vacation and sick time all together in one bucket called "PTO" is asinine. It incentivizes coming to work sick. Here in the US, people would still come into work sick anyway to prove how much of a hardcore workaholic they are, but still...
majewsky 9y ago
As a German, I find the concept of "sick time" baffling. When I'm sick, I go to my doctor and get a note that allows me to stay away from work until I'm healthy. Employers are required by law to continue paying the full salary for at least 6 weeks, or longer if the employer chooses so (e.g. 6 months at my employer). After that, one receives sick pay from the health insurance (70% of the last salary). Actually, it's even better at my employer. When I feel like a cold is coming on, I just shoot a e-mail to my manager and stay home. I only have to submit a doctor's note at the third day of continuous absence. The manager does not get to argue against your staying home, although I guess that question would be asked if one would abuse this policy. Managers are generally supportive of the policy; they don't want sick people spreading their diseases to their colleagues.
- ben1040 9y ago
  I worked for a US company that gave you an accrual of one sick day every month, with a maximum accrual of 120 days on the books. Sick days could be "verified" by presenting a doctor's note when you come back to work, or unverified, although you could only take up to five unverified sick days per calendar year. If you should use no sick days in a given calendar year, regardless of doctor's note or not, you would earn an additional vacation day for use in the following year. This set up a perverse incentive -- suppose you get sick, use some sick days, and bring back a doctor's note with you for it. You've lost your free vacation day for the next year, and you still have 5 allowable "unverified" days. You may as well now just "call in sick" on a few Fridays here and there to fill out your unverified sick day allowance, and give yourself some three day weekends.

Gustomaximus 9y ago

> If European companies can still function with employees taking up to a month off In many places it is 6 weeks annual leave.