4 ms·
This is a myth that keeps going and going. A Core i7 is not the same as a Xeon. ECC memory matters. The Apple premium simply isn't that much higher. I also wa
by atonse 9y ago
This is a myth that keeps going and going.
A Core i7 is not the same as a Xeon. ECC memory matters. The Apple premium simply isn't that much higher.
I also wanted to add that the cost of a person's time eclipses the cost of hardware (especially with computers). As a business, I simply wouldn't risk having days of downtime from a bad update, just to save $2,000 for something that's used for years, when the lost time in paying a creative person's salary will eclipse that.
- jjeaff 9y agoAnd everytime, someone mentions how ecc memory is important. But it's just not. There is a performance penalty, and the real use case for ecc memory is vanishingly small for a workstation. What could you possibly be doing on a workstation that requires ecc? For every 8 gb of memory, you are potentially looking at a single bit flip every 9 years. With ecc, only once every 45 years. And in exchange, you are looking at a 10% performance penalty. What could you possibly be doing on a Mac pro that would need that kind of accuracy?
- jnwatson 9y agoThe error rate is significantly higher than that. ECC also makes RowHammer much harder to pull off.
- strictnein 9y agoECC for security on a desktop to combat RowHammer?
- jjeaff 9y agoEven if it is higher, what are you doing on a workstation that would benefit from lower rates? This study found 2 (yes, 2) "suspected" soft errors in 300 machines running for multiple months. http://www2.ece.rochester.edu/~xinli/usenix07/ http://www2.ece.rochester.edu/~xinli/usenix07/ And not that Row Hammer should really be a concern for a workstation, but ECC does not necessarily protect against it. Some types of ram are vulnerable and some aren't. But ECC is not necessarily a factor. http://www.thirdio.com/rowhammer.pdf http://www.thirdio.com/rowhammer.pdf
- atonse 9y agoBut that's not my argument (Even though I said ECC matters. maybe you're right). My argument is that every time someone says "I can build the same thing for 1/3 the price", they are literally using completely different parts. They AREN'T building the same thing. The idea of an Apple Tax is that apple arbitrarily marks up everything. But if you bought the same parts independently, you'd find the markup is very little. More like 10%. Look at those $10k HP workstations. They are more comparable to Mac Pros.
- opencl 9y agoBut then the problem is just that Apple makes component choices with very poor value. A Threadripper CPU is not the same thing as the Xeon in the Mac Pro, but who cares? You can still build a way faster machine (with ECC) for half the price.
- jjeaff 9y agoApple techies hate to admit it. But in the end, it's the same reason people pay $2k for a plastic Louie Vuitton purse. Except, at least with a fancy purse, you can carry it around and signal your wealth to others. My workstation is hidden away under my desk.
- atonse 9y agoNo I’d say a better analogy for what you’re trying to say: I just want to buy a car for $20k that goes 70 miles an hour. But you’re only selling me cars for $50k cuz you insist on putting things like carbon fiber brakes and titanium alloys. I don’t need any of that. I can build something that perfectly meets my needs for way less. Because those enhancements are meaningless for what I’m trying to do (go 70 MPH)
- jjeaff 9y agoYa, or maybe even more precise: You want to sell me a car for $50k that can go only 60 mph. But it has carbon fiber brakes and titanium alloys, requires premium gas, and has a fancy logo. Oh, and it has a flux capacitor which does nothing. Or I could just buy a car that can go 100 mph for $20k.
- whywhywhywhy 9y agoA lot of the Mac faithfuls point to ECC and Xeon to defend the price of the entry level iMac Pro. Yet every single one of them I follow has used only MacBook Pros for the last 5 years or so which obviously don't have ECC so yeah I feel the importance of it is overstated.