4 ms·

So now, two questions: - Will the Mac Pro actually be Pro? - Will they ever bring back a Pro computer in a notebook form factor?

rsynnott 9y ago
What's non-'Pro' about the current 15" MBP that was 'Pro' about the previous design? They're practically the same. If you mean no SD card reader etc, it's my understanding that pro photographers tended to use a USB3/thunderbolt reader anyway, as the integrated reader was connected over USB2 internally and was far too slow for pro use.
- command_tab 9y ago
  FWIW, the SD card slot in newer (but not newest, ugh) Mac models is connected via the PCIe bus and not USB.
  - rsynnott 9y ago
    Huh, really? I had a 2014 or something rMBP in work at one point; was almost certain it had a USB2 SD card reader. EDIT: According to Apple, all the laptops are USB2: https://support.apple.com/en-us/HT204384 https://support.apple.com/en-us/HT204384 Desktops are PCIe.
    - sigjuice 9y ago
      I have a 2015 MacBook Air and wanted the SD card reader to belong to a Linux guest inside VMWare Fusion (for dd'ing custom RPi images). I just couldn't get it to work. Then I found this article https://kb.vmware.com/s/article/1035825 https://kb.vmware.com/s/article/1035825 which says This issue occurs because the SDXC card slot included in newer Mac models is connected to the Mac using the PCIe bus and not using the USB bus that the original SD card slot uses.
- BuildTheRobots 9y ago
  My 9 year old toshiba has a pci based SD card reader. The possibility for it to be internal and also offer reasonable speeds is not beyond the pale. Some of the top end cameras use both CF and SD, so sure, it doesn't cater for everyone, but SD has become so ubiquitous it seems odd it's missing.
  - rsynnott 9y ago
    Sure, it's definitely possible to have a fast SD card reader in a Mac laptop, but no Mac laptop, even ones with Pro in the name, ever actually did. (I'm actually not sure what the reason for this was; iMac SD card readers were PCIe).
  - rjsw 9y ago
    My 12 year old Asus has a PCI based SD card reader too, the same chip also provides the FireWire interface.
- awiesenhofer 9y ago
  > was far too slow for pro use I read this every time it comes up on HN yet every single one of the five photographers in our shared office laments nothing more than the missing card reader. If it was so slow why not just upgrade it to a USB3/PCIe-connected reader? and being a 'pro' device why didn't they do that already when USB3 became available?
  - rsynnott 9y ago
    I've no idea why they didn't do it, but they didn't.
- aarmenaa 9y ago
  - Escape button is on the touchbar - Touchbar at all - Battery reduced from 99 whr to 76 whr - Lost magnetic charging port - Lost every other useful port - Keyboard generally considered worse I currently have a 15" mid-2015 MBP, and I use the DisplayPort, HDMI, and USB-A ports on a daily basis. Losing the ports doesn't bother me too much, but similarly priced or cheaper laptops don't ask me compromise there. On the other hand the battery life, touchpad, and keyboard will be absolutely stellar or I'm not buying it, especially in this price range. Again, others ask me to compromise less. While Apple still has the best touchpads in the industry, others are catching up. Meanwhile, Apple has regressed in several ways
  - rsynnott 9y ago
    I've got a 15" 2017 MBP, replacing one from 2014 or so. I think on balance the 2017 is better for my needs. I don't particularly like the touchbar (though that may change if IntelliJ ever bring out their promised support and it's any good), but it's not a huge deal for me (at least after I remapped esc to caps lock; I now do this on every keyboard I use, as I find it more ergonomic). I do love the touchId thingy, but they could have done that without the touchbar. I prefer the keyboard to the retina MBP one, though I preferred the pre-retina MBP one to either. There was something about the feel of the rMBP (and MacBook Air) one I never liked. This is very subjective, of course. The port situation mostly hasn't bothered me, as I just use a USB-C hub with power passthrough. It would have been nice to have at least a single USB-A port, but realistically I wouldn't use it much. I find battery life to be similar to the previous one, generally. I think the size sacrifice is worth it, at least for my needs, because it makes the machine very portable. I barely notice the weight of it in a backpack now. My biggest complaint is one you haven't mentioned; you can't get an integrated GPU only version. You can't even fully disable the discrete GPU. This means that you're stuck with all the quirks of the dual GPU setup. This is a step back, IMO; I've no real use for a discrete GPU on my work machine, and these dual GPU Macs have never quite worked properly. I wasn't expecting to like it as much as I did, really, but I was mostly impressed.
    - softawre 9y ago
      what usb-c hub do you use? does it support two screens at once? I have tried 3 and all 3 have not worked well with 2 screens (one screen being 2k)
- redial 9y ago
  An SD reader connected over USB2 is better than no SD card reader. If they cared they would have made it PCIe, but instead they took it away in a move that benefited only Apple. No pro benefited from the removal of the sd slot. It didn't make the machine cheaper, or faster, and in fact it made it harder and more complicated to use. And then they had the audacity to charge more for it.

rsynnott 9y ago

What's non-'Pro' about the current 15" MBP that was 'Pro' about the previous design? They're practically the same. If you mean no SD card reader etc, it's my understanding that pro photographers tended to use a USB3/thunderbolt reader anyway, as the integrated reader was connected over USB2 internally and was far too slow for pro use.

command_tab 9y ago
FWIW, the SD card slot in newer (but not newest, ugh) Mac models is connected via the PCIe bus and not USB.
- rsynnott 9y ago
  Huh, really? I had a 2014 or something rMBP in work at one point; was almost certain it had a USB2 SD card reader. EDIT: According to Apple, all the laptops are USB2: https://support.apple.com/en-us/HT204384 https://support.apple.com/en-us/HT204384 Desktops are PCIe.
  - sigjuice 9y ago
    I have a 2015 MacBook Air and wanted the SD card reader to belong to a Linux guest inside VMWare Fusion (for dd'ing custom RPi images). I just couldn't get it to work. Then I found this article https://kb.vmware.com/s/article/1035825 https://kb.vmware.com/s/article/1035825 which says This issue occurs because the SDXC card slot included in newer Mac models is connected to the Mac using the PCIe bus and not using the USB bus that the original SD card slot uses.
BuildTheRobots 9y ago
My 9 year old toshiba has a pci based SD card reader. The possibility for it to be internal and also offer reasonable speeds is not beyond the pale. Some of the top end cameras use both CF and SD, so sure, it doesn't cater for everyone, but SD has become so ubiquitous it seems odd it's missing.
- rsynnott 9y ago
  Sure, it's definitely possible to have a fast SD card reader in a Mac laptop, but no Mac laptop, even ones with Pro in the name, ever actually did. (I'm actually not sure what the reason for this was; iMac SD card readers were PCIe).
- rjsw 9y ago
  My 12 year old Asus has a PCI based SD card reader too, the same chip also provides the FireWire interface.
awiesenhofer 9y ago
> was far too slow for pro use I read this every time it comes up on HN yet every single one of the five photographers in our shared office laments nothing more than the missing card reader. If it was so slow why not just upgrade it to a USB3/PCIe-connected reader? and being a 'pro' device why didn't they do that already when USB3 became available?
- rsynnott 9y ago
  I've no idea why they didn't do it, but they didn't.
aarmenaa 9y ago
- Escape button is on the touchbar - Touchbar at all - Battery reduced from 99 whr to 76 whr - Lost magnetic charging port - Lost every other useful port - Keyboard generally considered worse I currently have a 15" mid-2015 MBP, and I use the DisplayPort, HDMI, and USB-A ports on a daily basis. Losing the ports doesn't bother me too much, but similarly priced or cheaper laptops don't ask me compromise there. On the other hand the battery life, touchpad, and keyboard will be absolutely stellar or I'm not buying it, especially in this price range. Again, others ask me to compromise less. While Apple still has the best touchpads in the industry, others are catching up. Meanwhile, Apple has regressed in several ways
- rsynnott 9y ago
  I've got a 15" 2017 MBP, replacing one from 2014 or so. I think on balance the 2017 is better for my needs. I don't particularly like the touchbar (though that may change if IntelliJ ever bring out their promised support and it's any good), but it's not a huge deal for me (at least after I remapped esc to caps lock; I now do this on every keyboard I use, as I find it more ergonomic). I do love the touchId thingy, but they could have done that without the touchbar. I prefer the keyboard to the retina MBP one, though I preferred the pre-retina MBP one to either. There was something about the feel of the rMBP (and MacBook Air) one I never liked. This is very subjective, of course. The port situation mostly hasn't bothered me, as I just use a USB-C hub with power passthrough. It would have been nice to have at least a single USB-A port, but realistically I wouldn't use it much. I find battery life to be similar to the previous one, generally. I think the size sacrifice is worth it, at least for my needs, because it makes the machine very portable. I barely notice the weight of it in a backpack now. My biggest complaint is one you haven't mentioned; you can't get an integrated GPU only version. You can't even fully disable the discrete GPU. This means that you're stuck with all the quirks of the dual GPU setup. This is a step back, IMO; I've no real use for a discrete GPU on my work machine, and these dual GPU Macs have never quite worked properly. I wasn't expecting to like it as much as I did, really, but I was mostly impressed.
  - softawre 9y ago
    what usb-c hub do you use? does it support two screens at once? I have tried 3 and all 3 have not worked well with 2 screens (one screen being 2k)
redial 9y ago
An SD reader connected over USB2 is better than no SD card reader. If they cared they would have made it PCIe, but instead they took it away in a move that benefited only Apple. No pro benefited from the removal of the sd slot. It didn't make the machine cheaper, or faster, and in fact it made it harder and more complicated to use. And then they had the audacity to charge more for it.