3 ms·

I despise the idea of the God of the gaps. I don't believe in a supernatural God, but in one who presides over nature. Not one who defies science, but even allo

I despise the idea of the God of the gaps. I don't believe in a supernatural God, but in one who presides over nature. Not one who defies science, but even allows himself to be known by personal experiment. Why should a miracle be wrought by magic, when physics would suffice? My God is never so small as to hide in the cracks in reality.

09bjb 9y ago
Yeah, to me the miraculous existence of anything at all, the ability to enjoy pure wonder, and a fully "unitive" experience once in a while...is more than enough for me. That God certainly lives up to its name.
Daniel3 9y ago
AH! I immediately googled "My God is never so small as to hide in the cracks of reality" because it sounds so much like something Bonhoeffer would say. Well done. Also, excellent point, I might disagree with your disbelieving in a supernatural God, especially in terms of design and origin, but yes, physics is an incredible canvas. "For since the creation of the world God’s invisible qualities—his eternal power and divine nature—have been clearly seen, being understood from what has been made, so that people are without excuse." Romans 1:20
sofal 9y ago
That sounds like Mormonism for sure. I also used to believe it. But I later realized how unreliable this "personal experiment" is.
- OtterCoder 9y ago
  Your comment history suggests that your beef with the Mormon faith has only a little to do with the subjectivity of experience. If you really want to talk about it, I will, but it might be a better discussion for another thread or forum.
  - sofal 9y ago
    My disaffection has a lot of facets, but the unreliability of "personal revelation" is a pretty large one. To be honest, I would actually love to talk to you about it. I wish I could teleport to where you are and have a friendly discussion over coffee and hot chocolate or whatever :). I enjoy the topic, and especially enjoy discussing it with thoughtful believers like yourself. The willingness to discuss these things is extremely asymmetric in my experience, and only a small handful of people have ever expressed interest. That being said, it's a pretty involved discussion, and I agree that a Hacker News thread is an odd place for it, though a rare thread like this is the closest it ever gets.
    - Daniel3 9y ago
      If y'all are taking this offline, may I join, at least to read? (Not sure if I'll have input or not, really just looking to learn) Reply with forum/ contact if you don't mind.
    - OtterCoder 9y ago
      Alright. I don't know where would be best to chat. A private IRC channel? Google Hangouts? I'm also ok if Daniel3 wants to join the conversation.
cicero 9y ago
God of the gaps is rejected by most well-educated theologians, especially in the Catholic Thomist tradition. According to St. Thomas Aquinas, God is the foundation of existence, like a substrate underlying reality, but distinct from all other things. God maintains the existence of all things, including the laws of physics. Although God does not have to operate the universe in a consistent manner, he does so for at least two reasons. 1) a well ordered universe operating according to consistent laws has a beauty that reflects the nature of God, who is not arbitrary, but faithfully keeps his word. 2) It provides a predictable and stable place in which life can develop and thrive. However, since God operates physics, he certainly could "violate" it, but we believe he has done so only in very rare cases to get peoples' attention.
- OtterCoder 9y ago
  I think that there's a few semantics we could quibble about, "wouldn't anything God did be natural by definition," and so on. But I wholeheartedly agree with your first statement, and I find it profoundly frustrating that atheist tracts immediately assume that you do believe in a God of the gaps.

09bjb 9y ago

Yeah, to me the miraculous existence of anything at all, the ability to enjoy pure wonder, and a fully "unitive" experience once in a while...is more than enough for me. That God certainly lives up to its name.

Daniel3 9y ago

AH! I immediately googled "My God is never so small as to hide in the cracks of reality" because it sounds so much like something Bonhoeffer would say. Well done. Also, excellent point, I might disagree with your disbelieving in a supernatural God, especially in terms of design and origin, but yes, physics is an incredible canvas. "For since the creation of the world God’s invisible qualities—his eternal power and divine nature—have been clearly seen, being understood from what has been made, so that people are without excuse." Romans 1:20

sofal 9y ago

That sounds like Mormonism for sure. I also used to believe it. But I later realized how unreliable this "personal experiment" is.

OtterCoder 9y ago
Your comment history suggests that your beef with the Mormon faith has only a little to do with the subjectivity of experience. If you really want to talk about it, I will, but it might be a better discussion for another thread or forum.
- sofal 9y ago
  My disaffection has a lot of facets, but the unreliability of "personal revelation" is a pretty large one. To be honest, I would actually love to talk to you about it. I wish I could teleport to where you are and have a friendly discussion over coffee and hot chocolate or whatever :). I enjoy the topic, and especially enjoy discussing it with thoughtful believers like yourself. The willingness to discuss these things is extremely asymmetric in my experience, and only a small handful of people have ever expressed interest. That being said, it's a pretty involved discussion, and I agree that a Hacker News thread is an odd place for it, though a rare thread like this is the closest it ever gets.
  - Daniel3 9y ago
    If y'all are taking this offline, may I join, at least to read? (Not sure if I'll have input or not, really just looking to learn) Reply with forum/ contact if you don't mind.
  - OtterCoder 9y ago
    Alright. I don't know where would be best to chat. A private IRC channel? Google Hangouts? I'm also ok if Daniel3 wants to join the conversation.

cicero 9y ago

God of the gaps is rejected by most well-educated theologians, especially in the Catholic Thomist tradition. According to St. Thomas Aquinas, God is the foundation of existence, like a substrate underlying reality, but distinct from all other things. God maintains the existence of all things, including the laws of physics. Although God does not have to operate the universe in a consistent manner, he does so for at least two reasons. 1) a well ordered universe operating according to consistent laws has a beauty that reflects the nature of God, who is not arbitrary, but faithfully keeps his word. 2) It provides a predictable and stable place in which life can develop and thrive. However, since God operates physics, he certainly could "violate" it, but we believe he has done so only in very rare cases to get peoples' attention.

OtterCoder 9y ago
I think that there's a few semantics we could quibble about, "wouldn't anything God did be natural by definition," and so on. But I wholeheartedly agree with your first statement, and I find it profoundly frustrating that atheist tracts immediately assume that you do believe in a God of the gaps.