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No, I'm not trying to make that argument. There's certainly people today that have kids and can't afford diapers in first-world countries even if they were say

by avar 9y ago

No, I'm not trying to make that argument. There's certainly people today that have kids and can't afford diapers in first-world countries even if they were say 1/4 of current prices. I'm specifically responding to a part of the GPs comment that seems to be claiming that things have been getting worse since the 50s. Which is not to say that anyone being unable to afford diapers can't be considered unacceptable, or that you could argue that social policies should be changed to amend that problem. But it doesn't help anyone if the discussion isn't factually based. As far as I can tell poverty has been going down since the 50s[1] (with some bumps), and more generally, if you would present anyone in the 50s struggling to raise kids at their income level to swap with someone in 2018 at proportionally the same income level they'd take that swap in a heartbeat. All of which is not to say that thing can't get even better, but there's no way to set sensible social policy for the future if we don't look at the data showing where we've already been, and what current trends are. 1. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Poverty_in_the_United_States https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Poverty_in_the_United_States

rusk 9y ago
I would have to seriously question your assertion that poverty has been on the decline since the 50s .. I've seen the stats you present, but also stats to the contrary so the case is far from closed. What I do know is that the average industrial wage relative to the cost of living has been steadily declining with a marked plunge from the 80s onwards. I will concede that the 50s is a poor comparison, as much of the western world was in the midst of a post-war economic boom at that time.
- avar 9y ago
  Yes that may be wrong, however it would have to have gotten much worse for someone buying diapers to be worse off than 50 years ago, since their price in terms of purchasing power has plummeted in the meantime. I don't know about the average "industrial wage", but that sounds like a bad metric to focus on. Manufacturing in the US has dropped from around 25% during this time down into the single digits, so it's not as common a job as it used to be. If anything I'd expect the wage to have gone up, since those jobs are now more specialized.
  - ropeadopepope 9y ago
    > If anything I'd expect the wage to have gone up You'd think so, wouldn't you? The truth of the matter is most manufacturing companies are facing the same problem tech is right now: a "talent" shortage. The pay hasn't kept up with living costs in most areas. The days of buying a house and raising a family on an "industrial wage" are long gone. The pay is hardly enough to keep one person alive these days. As a result, nobody wants the jobs. The companies can't keep their assembly lines fully staffed, but they don't want to pay more either.

by avar 9y ago

rusk 9y ago

I would have to seriously question your assertion that poverty has been on the decline since the 50s .. I've seen the stats you present, but also stats to the contrary so the case is far from closed. What I do know is that the average industrial wage relative to the cost of living has been steadily declining with a marked plunge from the 80s onwards. I will concede that the 50s is a poor comparison, as much of the western world was in the midst of a post-war economic boom at that time.

avar 9y ago
Yes that may be wrong, however it would have to have gotten much worse for someone buying diapers to be worse off than 50 years ago, since their price in terms of purchasing power has plummeted in the meantime. I don't know about the average "industrial wage", but that sounds like a bad metric to focus on. Manufacturing in the US has dropped from around 25% during this time down into the single digits, so it's not as common a job as it used to be. If anything I'd expect the wage to have gone up, since those jobs are now more specialized.
- ropeadopepope 9y ago
  > If anything I'd expect the wage to have gone up You'd think so, wouldn't you? The truth of the matter is most manufacturing companies are facing the same problem tech is right now: a "talent" shortage. The pay hasn't kept up with living costs in most areas. The days of buying a house and raising a family on an "industrial wage" are long gone. The pay is hardly enough to keep one person alive these days. As a result, nobody wants the jobs. The companies can't keep their assembly lines fully staffed, but they don't want to pay more either.