4 ms·

The fact that people that frequent HN complain about something does not make it an obviously bad idea. Most of the developer complaints about the touchbar are a

The fact that people that frequent HN complain about something does not make it an obviously bad idea. Most of the developer complaints about the touchbar are about losing the hardware function and escape keys (which depending on how you use your laptop can be a bad trade off). Outside of that audience (and for those that code most of the time using an external keyboard) it’s actually pretty great. I say this based both on my experience for the past 18 months as well as from observing others (primarily non-developers).

reificator 9y ago
So if developers are not (a part of) the target audience for a "Pro" branded device, then who are?
- walterstucco 9y ago
  people that have money but no idea of what they are doing like the guy in front of me on the train last week that used an iPad pro as a laptop, with an external keyboard and an external trackpad occupying way more space than my real laptop...
b1daly 9y ago
Most “civilian” users of MacBooks don’t even know that you have to turn on the function keys, System Preferences, you want them to work as function keys. Or rather, the fn key toggles between the function keys and the default media controls that are mapped to them. The OS setting determines which is the default, and which is secondary. I don’t even mess with the keyboard on my MBP, unless I’m actually mobile. Even then, I often drag along my preferred input devices. It’s very hard to guage the relative weight of these different potential target markets. But, really, I’m dumbfounded at how many people I know don’t even know that the function keys are a thing! This seems to be the cases with Windows 10, also.
dpkonofa 9y ago
I agree and find it so weird to hear so many people complaining on here and I am a developer. I never liked the function keys and never cared for them specifically because you have to memorize the functions for each numbered key and then, once you do, you're tied to that specific piece of software. If you ever want to try something new, you're stuck memorizing a completely different set of key mappings. To me, the Touch Bar is incredibly useful and, if I really need to do some work where I absolutely need function keys, I can just plug in a regular keyboard. No one I know complains about the Touch Bar except people on Reddit and HN and I know tons of people with the new laptops. I also don't understand the hate for the new keyboards but that's a whole other rabbit hole to go down.

reificator 9y ago

So if developers are not (a part of) the target audience for a "Pro" branded device, then who are?

walterstucco 9y ago
people that have money but no idea of what they are doing like the guy in front of me on the train last week that used an iPad pro as a laptop, with an external keyboard and an external trackpad occupying way more space than my real laptop...

b1daly 9y ago

Most “civilian” users of MacBooks don’t even know that you have to turn on the function keys, System Preferences, you want them to work as function keys. Or rather, the fn key toggles between the function keys and the default media controls that are mapped to them. The OS setting determines which is the default, and which is secondary. I don’t even mess with the keyboard on my MBP, unless I’m actually mobile. Even then, I often drag along my preferred input devices. It’s very hard to guage the relative weight of these different potential target markets. But, really, I’m dumbfounded at how many people I know don’t even know that the function keys are a thing! This seems to be the cases with Windows 10, also.

dpkonofa 9y ago

I agree and find it so weird to hear so many people complaining on here and I am a developer. I never liked the function keys and never cared for them specifically because you have to memorize the functions for each numbered key and then, once you do, you're tied to that specific piece of software. If you ever want to try something new, you're stuck memorizing a completely different set of key mappings. To me, the Touch Bar is incredibly useful and, if I really need to do some work where I absolutely need function keys, I can just plug in a regular keyboard. No one I know complains about the Touch Bar except people on Reddit and HN and I know tons of people with the new laptops. I also don't understand the hate for the new keyboards but that's a whole other rabbit hole to go down.