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I find comments like these amusing. First, you don't need to spend hours configuring the Touch Bar for it to be a functional machine, like you would trying to

I find comments like these amusing. First, you don't need to spend hours configuring the Touch Bar for it to be a functional machine, like you would trying to run Linux on a laptop... But some people do, because it's there. The Touch Bar works just fine without this article. Second, having a myriad of workarounds for its problems is a positive not a negative. Everything has problems; I'll take the platform that has a myriad of workarounds over the one that has a handful. Be my guest to use something else for all of your programming. I'll keep using my MacBook Pro.

Yetanfou 9y ago
Just like you don't need to spend hours trying to run Linux on a laptop. I'd say 20 minutes is enough in general, depending on how you install it. Quicker when using a fast network connection, slower when you first have to get a distribution. But wait, this is not all you get, there is more. You can choose which desktop you want to run, you can install application software at the same moment, you can either start working or start tinkering, whatever fills your need or desire. One thing you generally do not have to do: start tinkering around to get a working Escape key. OK, I said generally, those who bought a computer without one may have no other choice than to join the article writer in his quest for sanity. Did I mention all this comes for free?
- ravitation 9y ago
  In 20 minutes I've got all the hardware drivers installed? Do they even exist/work on my machine's specific hardware? Where do I even find them? I get to choose a desktop and a distro to run? I guess I also make those choices in 20 minutes? Did I mention this all comes without official support for a lot of commonly used software (Adobe Suite, Office Suite, etc)? Probably not a good idea to try to make the argument that it's somehow easier to run Linux on some generic laptop than it is to run MacOS on a Mac... Also... Being able to install software while doing other things is not a unique thing in 2018... Also... The escape key works just fine out of the box. I can open my MacBook's box for the first time and be working in less than 20 minutes (and that's being very generous). That's simply not something you're doing with Linux.
  - Yetanfou 9y ago
    Yes, as long as the laptop is one with good support - Thinkpads, HP's business machines, etc - you won't have to fiddle with device drivers. As to "where even to find them" the answer is you don't need to look as they'll be installed with your distribution unless you're using 'odd' hardware. In the latter case you will have to go looking so the choice is simple: either use known-supported hardware (a large and varied group) or accept the challenge. Given that you don't seem to like tinkering with device drivers and such you'd just use a Thinkpad and be done with it. As to whether you'll find commercial software (which seems to be what you're after) to your liking depends on what business you're in. If you're doing video production, animation, software development or engineering the chances of finding something are higher than when you're in graphic design. Do mind though that the non-commercial alternatives (e.g. Inkscape, Krita, etc) are often on par with the commercial offerings. And yes... I actually do make the argument that running Linux is easier than running MacOS on a Mac. I don't say running it 'on a generic laptop' is easier, as said the choice is yours. I can install it anytime, any place where I have access to the 'net or happen to carry a USB stick with a distribution, on any supported hardware. I can run it as a live distribution on other hardware. I can run it on a Raspberry Pi, on a laptop, a server, you get the picture. Try it for yourself, it actually works on Apple hardware. Don't believe what you hear from those who feel they need to defend their decision to invest in other platforms.
    - ravitation 9y ago
      I mean, the OP gave a real world example of the lack of drivers... Doesn't having to write several paragraphs qualifying your previous statement make you question your position? Choosing the right hardware, being in the right industry, etc... I'm also not just "[believing] what I hear". I've used Linux (and do pretty much everyday in some form) on multiple primary machines, and I also currently use my Mac.
  - gray_-_wolf 9y ago
    > I get to choose a desktop and a distro to run? I guess I also make those choices in 20 minutes? Most of the time you choose a distro and desktop that fits you and then install for rest of the time. And in 2018 driver support is generally quite solid.
dylan-m 9y ago
Heh, I'm mostly bitter because most of the places I've interviewed at lately just give everyone a Macbook Pro and that's the end of it, and I'm sick of cursing at their window manager and then running Linux on the things. (Missing webcam driver makes me grumpy when the XPS 13 I normally use supports everything perfectly). Anyway, I don't mean to rag on anyone's preferred OS. More just taking an opportunity to grumble pointlessly about a particular unconvincing argument people like to use for it. (Unfortunately, that argument is convincing for the people who buy the hardware I have to put up with at work). Also to remind people about ergonomics, because we mustn't forget these things. Please don't be too drawn to the shiny touchbar, it is still attached to a keyboard which encourages squishy hand position and which is attached to a screen that is not at eye level.
- ravitation 9y ago
  I totally get that, but in a lot of cases it is easier to use MacOS than to run Linux (like not having to worry about hardware drivers pretty much at all). Also, those are characteristics of laptops... Not specifically Macs... And I do need a mobile computer...

Yetanfou 9y ago

Just like you don't need to spend hours trying to run Linux on a laptop. I'd say 20 minutes is enough in general, depending on how you install it. Quicker when using a fast network connection, slower when you first have to get a distribution. But wait, this is not all you get, there is more. You can choose which desktop you want to run, you can install application software at the same moment, you can either start working or start tinkering, whatever fills your need or desire. One thing you generally do not have to do: start tinkering around to get a working Escape key. OK, I said generally, those who bought a computer without one may have no other choice than to join the article writer in his quest for sanity. Did I mention all this comes for free?

ravitation 9y ago
In 20 minutes I've got all the hardware drivers installed? Do they even exist/work on my machine's specific hardware? Where do I even find them? I get to choose a desktop and a distro to run? I guess I also make those choices in 20 minutes? Did I mention this all comes without official support for a lot of commonly used software (Adobe Suite, Office Suite, etc)? Probably not a good idea to try to make the argument that it's somehow easier to run Linux on some generic laptop than it is to run MacOS on a Mac... Also... Being able to install software while doing other things is not a unique thing in 2018... Also... The escape key works just fine out of the box. I can open my MacBook's box for the first time and be working in less than 20 minutes (and that's being very generous). That's simply not something you're doing with Linux.
- Yetanfou 9y ago
  Yes, as long as the laptop is one with good support - Thinkpads, HP's business machines, etc - you won't have to fiddle with device drivers. As to "where even to find them" the answer is you don't need to look as they'll be installed with your distribution unless you're using 'odd' hardware. In the latter case you will have to go looking so the choice is simple: either use known-supported hardware (a large and varied group) or accept the challenge. Given that you don't seem to like tinkering with device drivers and such you'd just use a Thinkpad and be done with it. As to whether you'll find commercial software (which seems to be what you're after) to your liking depends on what business you're in. If you're doing video production, animation, software development or engineering the chances of finding something are higher than when you're in graphic design. Do mind though that the non-commercial alternatives (e.g. Inkscape, Krita, etc) are often on par with the commercial offerings. And yes... I actually do make the argument that running Linux is easier than running MacOS on a Mac. I don't say running it 'on a generic laptop' is easier, as said the choice is yours. I can install it anytime, any place where I have access to the 'net or happen to carry a USB stick with a distribution, on any supported hardware. I can run it as a live distribution on other hardware. I can run it on a Raspberry Pi, on a laptop, a server, you get the picture. Try it for yourself, it actually works on Apple hardware. Don't believe what you hear from those who feel they need to defend their decision to invest in other platforms.
  - ravitation 9y ago
    I mean, the OP gave a real world example of the lack of drivers... Doesn't having to write several paragraphs qualifying your previous statement make you question your position? Choosing the right hardware, being in the right industry, etc... I'm also not just "[believing] what I hear". I've used Linux (and do pretty much everyday in some form) on multiple primary machines, and I also currently use my Mac.
- gray_-_wolf 9y ago
  > I get to choose a desktop and a distro to run? I guess I also make those choices in 20 minutes? Most of the time you choose a distro and desktop that fits you and then install for rest of the time. And in 2018 driver support is generally quite solid.

dylan-m 9y ago

Heh, I'm mostly bitter because most of the places I've interviewed at lately just give everyone a Macbook Pro and that's the end of it, and I'm sick of cursing at their window manager and then running Linux on the things. (Missing webcam driver makes me grumpy when the XPS 13 I normally use supports everything perfectly). Anyway, I don't mean to rag on anyone's preferred OS. More just taking an opportunity to grumble pointlessly about a particular unconvincing argument people like to use for it. (Unfortunately, that argument is convincing for the people who buy the hardware I have to put up with at work). Also to remind people about ergonomics, because we mustn't forget these things. Please don't be too drawn to the shiny touchbar, it is still attached to a keyboard which encourages squishy hand position and which is attached to a screen that is not at eye level.

ravitation 9y ago
I totally get that, but in a lot of cases it is easier to use MacOS than to run Linux (like not having to worry about hardware drivers pretty much at all). Also, those are characteristics of laptops... Not specifically Macs... And I do need a mobile computer...