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> 80,945 against and 75 in favor Life in a democracy?
by jumelles 9y ago
> 80,945 against and 75 in favor
Life in a democracy?
- mehrzad 9y agoWe Americans like to claim we live in a republic and not a democracy, but we live in a broken republic too.
- tracker1 9y agoThe problem is, at this point the "representation" is far too removed from the governed... Very few people "know" their representatives (local, state and federal alike). And the public image is very manipulated. Unfortunately, people no longer vote for who they feel is a better person, but who is in their party and has a better smile and message. In the internet age, it's almost worse with the sheer amount of disinformation which cannot be contained or offset in both directions, for the better or the worse of a given candidate. It's disillusioning and outright sad. That doesn't even account for external pressures and interests.
- koolba 9y agoFrom the article: >> But despite deep public opposition, the agency concluded that the company's plan met with legal standards. I’ll take equal interpretation of the law over mob rule any day of the week.
- Grovara123 9y agoShort and direct - well stated and agreed.
- banach 9y agoThe holocaust was legal, slavery was legal, segregation was legal. If you use the state as a metric for ethics you'll end up disappointed. -- @lex_looper
- Turing_Machine 9y agoAre you seriously comparing pumping 1/2000 of the water that normally goes down the local river with the holocaust or slavery?
- oarsinsync 9y agoIt reads more like that you shouldn’t expect the state to behave ethically if there is no legal obligation to do so, and that what is considered ethical and/or legal can change over time. Defending potentially bad behaviour solely on the basis that it’s legal behaviour may not be the best defence (outside of a court of law.)
- cowpig 9y agoI don't think @banach did that. The point of the quote was to point out that laws aren't necessarily right. And this point you keep making about it only being a small % of the total water isn't very convincing. I'm sure you would mind if I embezzled 1/2000th of Michigan's GDP.
- Turing_Machine 9y ago> I don't think @banach did that. I think he clearly did do that. > And this point you keep making about it only being a small % of the total water isn't very convincing. I'm sorry you don't find arithmetic convincing, but there's not much I can do about that. > I'm sure you would mind if I embezzled 1/2000th of Michigan's GDP. Now you're wandering off into non sequitur.
- domevent 9y agoThis is arguing dishonestly, as you presumably understand the difference between using examples to illustrate a principle, and a direct comparison. Why not just address the point, instead of being “outraged” by his presentation?
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- gameswithgo 9y agoI notice a lot lately, maybe it has always been so, that some large powerful entity will insist that the citizen has been screwed over according to all proper procedures and applicable laws...
- Zeta_Function 9y agoYou can call a clod a cake, right? We don’t live in a democracy, we live in an indirectly federated republic. I’m this case a very badly corrupt one, run by plutocrats for longer than any of us have been alive. We have killer propaganda though.
- Firerouge 9y agoIt sounds like these comments were misdirected, and should have gone towards policy makers, not an agency that proclaims to only enforce existing policy.
- deleted 9y ago[deleted]
- anigbrowl 9y agoIt turns out policy makers are not as responsive as they are supposed to be, so people are forced to seek other outlets to express their concern.
- rch 9y ago> We don't have the power to say no arbitrarily. We can't just say no for reasons that aren't attached to the law. Seems like the residents need to direct their energy towards lawmakers.
- slavik81 9y agoA government agency is similar to a court in that sense. It doesn't matter how many people want someone thrown in prison, the judge must have a reason based on existing law to do so.
- Spivak 9y agoAt least to me, this is the system working. Of course anything surrounding Michigan, Nestle and water is going to attract attention and serve as the backdrop for uninformed people to vent their anger. And despite all the backlash the adminstration followed the law and the right call was still made.
- anigbrowl 9y agoThat's nice for Nestle, but ignores the fact that Flint is still having water quality problems and replacement of the lead-tainted pipes won't be complete until 2020. It's entirely reasonable that citizens would like their government to prioritize their wellbeing at the expense of regular procedure, considering that the Flint water crisis was a product of government error to start with.
- Turing_Machine 9y agoThis facility is over a hundred miles from Flint, and on a completely different watershed. In fact, the watershed drains into a completely different Great Lake (Lake Michigan rather than Lake Huron).
- maxerickson 9y agoHydrologically they are the same lake. The rivers drain into it quite far apart though.
- anigbrowl 9y agoI thought I was clear that I consider it a political rather than a hydrological problem.
- dexterdog 9y agoThat has to be a skewed sample. You can't get that kind of lopsidedness if the question is "Can I have permission to murder you right now?"
- topspin 9y agoLife where property rights exist.