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I always find it amusing how developers flock to MacOS saying things like "you don't need to configure it like Linux; it just works", and then there are article

I always find it amusing how developers flock to MacOS saying things like "you don't need to configure it like Linux; it just works", and then there are articles like this containing myriads of workarounds for its problems :b This is cool, though. I'm somewhat envious of the shiny thing. The conky screenshots are fun, since this is quite reminiscent of it, except done somewhat usefully. It's a shame that it's tied to a little laptop keyboard that you definitely shouldn't be using full time if you value your wrists and your spine, but, it's a start. (Now, please please please don't do all of your programming on a MacBook).

ravitation 9y ago
I find comments like these amusing. First, you don't need to spend hours configuring the Touch Bar for it to be a functional machine, like you would trying to run Linux on a laptop... But some people do, because it's there. The Touch Bar works just fine without this article. Second, having a myriad of workarounds for its problems is a positive not a negative. Everything has problems; I'll take the platform that has a myriad of workarounds over the one that has a handful. Be my guest to use something else for all of your programming. I'll keep using my MacBook Pro.
- Yetanfou 9y ago
  Just like you don't need to spend hours trying to run Linux on a laptop. I'd say 20 minutes is enough in general, depending on how you install it. Quicker when using a fast network connection, slower when you first have to get a distribution. But wait, this is not all you get, there is more. You can choose which desktop you want to run, you can install application software at the same moment, you can either start working or start tinkering, whatever fills your need or desire. One thing you generally do not have to do: start tinkering around to get a working Escape key. OK, I said generally, those who bought a computer without one may have no other choice than to join the article writer in his quest for sanity. Did I mention all this comes for free?
  - ravitation 9y ago
    In 20 minutes I've got all the hardware drivers installed? Do they even exist/work on my machine's specific hardware? Where do I even find them? I get to choose a desktop and a distro to run? I guess I also make those choices in 20 minutes? Did I mention this all comes without official support for a lot of commonly used software (Adobe Suite, Office Suite, etc)? Probably not a good idea to try to make the argument that it's somehow easier to run Linux on some generic laptop than it is to run MacOS on a Mac... Also... Being able to install software while doing other things is not a unique thing in 2018... Also... The escape key works just fine out of the box. I can open my MacBook's box for the first time and be working in less than 20 minutes (and that's being very generous). That's simply not something you're doing with Linux.
    - Yetanfou 9y ago
      Yes, as long as the laptop is one with good support - Thinkpads, HP's business machines, etc - you won't have to fiddle with device drivers. As to "where even to find them" the answer is you don't need to look as they'll be installed with your distribution unless you're using 'odd' hardware. In the latter case you will have to go looking so the choice is simple: either use known-supported hardware (a large and varied group) or accept the challenge. Given that you don't seem to like tinkering with device drivers and such you'd just use a Thinkpad and be done with it. As to whether you'll find commercial software (which seems to be what you're after) to your liking depends on what business you're in. If you're doing video production, animation, software development or engineering the chances of finding something are higher than when you're in graphic design. Do mind though that the non-commercial alternatives (e.g. Inkscape, Krita, etc) are often on par with the commercial offerings. And yes... I actually do make the argument that running Linux is easier than running MacOS on a Mac. I don't say running it 'on a generic laptop' is easier, as said the choice is yours. I can install it anytime, any place where I have access to the 'net or happen to carry a USB stick with a distribution, on any supported hardware. I can run it as a live distribution on other hardware. I can run it on a Raspberry Pi, on a laptop, a server, you get the picture. Try it for yourself, it actually works on Apple hardware. Don't believe what you hear from those who feel they need to defend their decision to invest in other platforms.
- dylan-m 9y ago
  Heh, I'm mostly bitter because most of the places I've interviewed at lately just give everyone a Macbook Pro and that's the end of it, and I'm sick of cursing at their window manager and then running Linux on the things. (Missing webcam driver makes me grumpy when the XPS 13 I normally use supports everything perfectly). Anyway, I don't mean to rag on anyone's preferred OS. More just taking an opportunity to grumble pointlessly about a particular unconvincing argument people like to use for it. (Unfortunately, that argument is convincing for the people who buy the hardware I have to put up with at work). Also to remind people about ergonomics, because we mustn't forget these things. Please don't be too drawn to the shiny touchbar, it is still attached to a keyboard which encourages squishy hand position and which is attached to a screen that is not at eye level.
  - ravitation 9y ago
    I totally get that, but in a lot of cases it is easier to use MacOS than to run Linux (like not having to worry about hardware drivers pretty much at all). Also, those are characteristics of laptops... Not specifically Macs... And I do need a mobile computer...
dljsjr 9y ago
The difference is that this is a highly subjective "problem". I actually love the touch bar. I'm not in love with esc and f-keys not being physical but lots of the other stuff it does is pretty great. Like, the brightness and volume sliders he hates so much? I love them. Greatly prefer them over buttons. I've been developing on MacBooks for about 7 years now and I do almost no system configuration at all besides installing requisite apps. So yeah, I do love that developing on a Mac doesn't require me to configure it. My takeaway is that most people probably DON'T do all that much configuring of their systems. But they aren't writing blog posts about how much they love their touch bars because there's no meat to that. It's not a useful article to write. But for people who do dislike the touch bar, this article is super useful to them.
- ricw 9y ago
  Same. Ever since I’ve found the “hold slidebar<volume|brightness>”+slide shortcut this has gotten even better. You press <volume>, slide left or right in one go and You’ve adjusted it better than you could have previously. Prior to the touchbar I simply wouldn’t use the Fn buttons ever. Now I actually use them.
  - makecheck 9y ago
    Before the Touch Bar, you could always use modifier keys in combination with volume keys for continuous (rather than discrete) volume adjustments. Except it was on the screen, with a huge volume display, using volume keys you could feel with your fingers, taking up less keyboard space overall.
    - dwighttk 9y ago
      shift + option +volume up / down for those who are curious
c22 9y ago
It seems that every system is going to have parts that don't "work" when spread to enough people with different ideas of what works for them. Whether or not the touch bar met its goals, it seems obvious it was never added to appeal to developers. I think a lot of devs think of macbooks as machines for developers because they see a lot of their peers using them, but I suspect "developers" as a group have historically been a tiny percentage of Apple's customer base.

ravitation 9y ago

I find comments like these amusing. First, you don't need to spend hours configuring the Touch Bar for it to be a functional machine, like you would trying to run Linux on a laptop... But some people do, because it's there. The Touch Bar works just fine without this article. Second, having a myriad of workarounds for its problems is a positive not a negative. Everything has problems; I'll take the platform that has a myriad of workarounds over the one that has a handful. Be my guest to use something else for all of your programming. I'll keep using my MacBook Pro.

Yetanfou 9y ago
Just like you don't need to spend hours trying to run Linux on a laptop. I'd say 20 minutes is enough in general, depending on how you install it. Quicker when using a fast network connection, slower when you first have to get a distribution. But wait, this is not all you get, there is more. You can choose which desktop you want to run, you can install application software at the same moment, you can either start working or start tinkering, whatever fills your need or desire. One thing you generally do not have to do: start tinkering around to get a working Escape key. OK, I said generally, those who bought a computer without one may have no other choice than to join the article writer in his quest for sanity. Did I mention all this comes for free?
- ravitation 9y ago
  In 20 minutes I've got all the hardware drivers installed? Do they even exist/work on my machine's specific hardware? Where do I even find them? I get to choose a desktop and a distro to run? I guess I also make those choices in 20 minutes? Did I mention this all comes without official support for a lot of commonly used software (Adobe Suite, Office Suite, etc)? Probably not a good idea to try to make the argument that it's somehow easier to run Linux on some generic laptop than it is to run MacOS on a Mac... Also... Being able to install software while doing other things is not a unique thing in 2018... Also... The escape key works just fine out of the box. I can open my MacBook's box for the first time and be working in less than 20 minutes (and that's being very generous). That's simply not something you're doing with Linux.
  - Yetanfou 9y ago
    Yes, as long as the laptop is one with good support - Thinkpads, HP's business machines, etc - you won't have to fiddle with device drivers. As to "where even to find them" the answer is you don't need to look as they'll be installed with your distribution unless you're using 'odd' hardware. In the latter case you will have to go looking so the choice is simple: either use known-supported hardware (a large and varied group) or accept the challenge. Given that you don't seem to like tinkering with device drivers and such you'd just use a Thinkpad and be done with it. As to whether you'll find commercial software (which seems to be what you're after) to your liking depends on what business you're in. If you're doing video production, animation, software development or engineering the chances of finding something are higher than when you're in graphic design. Do mind though that the non-commercial alternatives (e.g. Inkscape, Krita, etc) are often on par with the commercial offerings. And yes... I actually do make the argument that running Linux is easier than running MacOS on a Mac. I don't say running it 'on a generic laptop' is easier, as said the choice is yours. I can install it anytime, any place where I have access to the 'net or happen to carry a USB stick with a distribution, on any supported hardware. I can run it as a live distribution on other hardware. I can run it on a Raspberry Pi, on a laptop, a server, you get the picture. Try it for yourself, it actually works on Apple hardware. Don't believe what you hear from those who feel they need to defend their decision to invest in other platforms.
dylan-m 9y ago
Heh, I'm mostly bitter because most of the places I've interviewed at lately just give everyone a Macbook Pro and that's the end of it, and I'm sick of cursing at their window manager and then running Linux on the things. (Missing webcam driver makes me grumpy when the XPS 13 I normally use supports everything perfectly). Anyway, I don't mean to rag on anyone's preferred OS. More just taking an opportunity to grumble pointlessly about a particular unconvincing argument people like to use for it. (Unfortunately, that argument is convincing for the people who buy the hardware I have to put up with at work). Also to remind people about ergonomics, because we mustn't forget these things. Please don't be too drawn to the shiny touchbar, it is still attached to a keyboard which encourages squishy hand position and which is attached to a screen that is not at eye level.
- ravitation 9y ago
  I totally get that, but in a lot of cases it is easier to use MacOS than to run Linux (like not having to worry about hardware drivers pretty much at all). Also, those are characteristics of laptops... Not specifically Macs... And I do need a mobile computer...

dljsjr 9y ago

The difference is that this is a highly subjective "problem". I actually love the touch bar. I'm not in love with esc and f-keys not being physical but lots of the other stuff it does is pretty great. Like, the brightness and volume sliders he hates so much? I love them. Greatly prefer them over buttons. I've been developing on MacBooks for about 7 years now and I do almost no system configuration at all besides installing requisite apps. So yeah, I do love that developing on a Mac doesn't require me to configure it. My takeaway is that most people probably DON'T do all that much configuring of their systems. But they aren't writing blog posts about how much they love their touch bars because there's no meat to that. It's not a useful article to write. But for people who do dislike the touch bar, this article is super useful to them.

ricw 9y ago
Same. Ever since I’ve found the “hold slidebar<volume|brightness>”+slide shortcut this has gotten even better. You press <volume>, slide left or right in one go and You’ve adjusted it better than you could have previously. Prior to the touchbar I simply wouldn’t use the Fn buttons ever. Now I actually use them.
- makecheck 9y ago
  Before the Touch Bar, you could always use modifier keys in combination with volume keys for continuous (rather than discrete) volume adjustments. Except it was on the screen, with a huge volume display, using volume keys you could feel with your fingers, taking up less keyboard space overall.
  - dwighttk 9y ago
    shift + option +volume up / down for those who are curious

c22 9y ago

It seems that every system is going to have parts that don't "work" when spread to enough people with different ideas of what works for them. Whether or not the touch bar met its goals, it seems obvious it was never added to appeal to developers. I think a lot of devs think of macbooks as machines for developers because they see a lot of their peers using them, but I suspect "developers" as a group have historically been a tiny percentage of Apple's customer base.