5 ms·

Robinhood replaced “call” and “put” with “up” and “down”

48 points by tejasmanohar 9y ago

chollida1 9y ago
This is clearly photo shopped right? I mean going up vs going down? and the high vs medium risk statement is, at best, debatable. If this is real, can anyone shed light on how they ensure a user has the capital required to purchase options? ie if I purchase 1 calls of GOOG and they expire ITM what does Robin Hood do if I dont' have $10,000 in cash for the exercise?
- jitl 9y ago
  In the thread they say Robinhood doesn’t allow selling calls if you don’t hav the shares already.
  - chollida1 9y ago
    Sure, that makes sense, but i asked about buying calls and not having cash to settle the transaction at expiry.
    - Basketb926 9y ago
      According to Robinhood, "If you don’t have enough buying power to exercise your option, we’ll sell the contract in the market for you about 1 hour before it expires." https://support.robinhood.com/hc/en-us/articles/115005656423-Expiration-Exercise-and-Assignment https://support.robinhood.com/hc/en-us/articles/115005656423...
      - perl4ever 9y ago
        That seems scary to me, because even if it normally works, if it fails, it's presumably not something customer service can "make ok" especially because they aren't charging you commissions and you are, as they say, the product not the customer. At this point, customer service of the major discount broker I've used for many years is so abysmal that the last thing I want is a free alternative that promises to do more for me. It makes me think of how impossible it is to deal with Google when something goes wrong with their free offerings. I think social media has become a societal problem because there is so much revenue available from exploiting addictive behavior, and the logic has to lead to brokers trying to catch up. If you are sensible with investing, the system doesn't need or want you.
    - TheHypnotist 9y ago
      Unless I'm misunderstanding the question, in this case you would not exercise your option and just be out the cost of the contract. Edit: Turns out I did sort of misunderstand. The question has been answered.
    - 2trill2spill 9y ago
      Sell your contract. You don't need to exercise a call option you purchased unless you want to.
- acchow 9y ago
  > ie if I purchase 1 calls of GOOG and they expire There shouldn't be holding requirements for going long on options. At the most you lose your hypothetical gains (tho, wouldn't most brokers be nice enough to automatically exercise-and-sell for you for a small commission?) The problem is when you write options.
acchow 9y ago
This is so bad. I know people who actually think it's just about betting it go up or down, like the higher orders don't exist (the greeks).
nosefrog 9y ago
What's wrong with removing the jargon from stock trading?
- TheHypnotist 9y ago
  The trouble is that Robinhood has a very low barrier of entry and now you have laymen who, if they don't understand basic finance terms, likely do not understand the fundamentals of trading options.
  - truthteller11 9y ago
    Like the javascript in the programming field? Go figure.
    - perl4ever 9y ago
      If you want to write programs without really having a clue, that's fine and educational for most purposes, just not if you're hacking your personal vehicle, pacemaker, or nuclear reactor.
      - truthteller11 9y ago
        If someone want to burn all their personal money, so what? So basically: At least they will not be programming insecure things, even websites that leak millions of records every week by "thinking they know programming". Too much double standard: "Lets make programming accessible so everyone can become code monkeys without clue, but do not touch my precious stock trading terms. We do not want anyone trying to get rich without a clue."
        contravariant 9y ago
        This is like arguing against literacy because gambling has legal restrictions.
  - jbob2000 9y ago
hn_throwaway_99 9y ago
Honestly, this doesn't surprise me at all. The interface in Robinhood makes me think it can only be useful for people that have 0 idea what they are doing. Case in point: their graphs (at least on Android) have no labled Y axis! Seriously, WTF.
- micaksica 9y ago
  > their graphs (at least on Android) have no labled Y axis! It's the same on iOS. I can't say I'm happy with Robinhood. It's dumbing down something that can get you into a world of financial pain if you don't know what you're doing. If they want to target people that don't understand what they are playing with, they shouldn't be giving away options/crypto access/margin buying to people that don't understand those concepts. Expect a lot of people to lose a lot of money. /r/stupidfinance has some pretty great posts in which people were left in the cold after playing with fire in RH.
  - abaldwin7302 9y ago
    I know very little about stock trading. I shouldn't get in a world of financial pain if I don't trade on margin (Robinhood Gold Buying Power) and only transfer money I can afford to lose right? That is treating Robinhood like a casino. I recognize I don't know what I'm doing at the casino. Therefore I don't use a credit card to buy casino chips and I have a hard stop-loss of a couple hundred bucks that's budgeted as entertainment money.
- twelve40 9y ago
  Seriously maddening : ( How hard was it to put the ticks on the axis? So that at least I can gauge how big the changes are? Those graphs are comically useless...
fogzen 9y ago
As if we needed another reminder that Wall Street is a casino underwritten by the taxpayers. A welfare program run by the Fed for the rich. A market for fools, not a necessary institution to capitalize business. I guess it's better than trading slaves.
- perl4ever 9y ago
  Surely it can be both a casino for the ignorant and a necessary institution for the educated and intelligent.
sterban 9y ago
I believe this is just under the "Discover" option. When selecting an expiration, it is displayed as Call/Put.
- austenallred 9y ago
  Nope, this is under FB -> trade options
Apocryphon 9y ago
Is there a currently updated Twitter or a Tumblr catching ridiculously silly app UX decisions like this? Similar to: https://twitter.com/internetofshit https://twitter.com/internetofshit or the defunct Read the Fucking HIG

48 points by tejasmanohar 9y ago

This is clearly photo shopped right? I mean going up vs going down? and the high vs medium risk statement is, at best, debatable. If this is real, can anyone shed light on how they ensure a user has the capital required to purchase options? ie if I purchase 1 calls of GOOG and they expire ITM what does Robin Hood do if I dont' have $10,000 in cash for the exercise?

jitl 9y ago
In the thread they say Robinhood doesn’t allow selling calls if you don’t hav the shares already.
- chollida1 9y ago
  Sure, that makes sense, but i asked about buying calls and not having cash to settle the transaction at expiry.
  - Basketb926 9y ago
    According to Robinhood, "If you don’t have enough buying power to exercise your option, we’ll sell the contract in the market for you about 1 hour before it expires." https://support.robinhood.com/hc/en-us/articles/115005656423-Expiration-Exercise-and-Assignment https://support.robinhood.com/hc/en-us/articles/115005656423...
    - perl4ever 9y ago
      That seems scary to me, because even if it normally works, if it fails, it's presumably not something customer service can "make ok" especially because they aren't charging you commissions and you are, as they say, the product not the customer. At this point, customer service of the major discount broker I've used for many years is so abysmal that the last thing I want is a free alternative that promises to do more for me. It makes me think of how impossible it is to deal with Google when something goes wrong with their free offerings. I think social media has become a societal problem because there is so much revenue available from exploiting addictive behavior, and the logic has to lead to brokers trying to catch up. If you are sensible with investing, the system doesn't need or want you.
  - TheHypnotist 9y ago
    Unless I'm misunderstanding the question, in this case you would not exercise your option and just be out the cost of the contract. Edit: Turns out I did sort of misunderstand. The question has been answered.
  - 2trill2spill 9y ago
    Sell your contract. You don't need to exercise a call option you purchased unless you want to.
acchow 9y ago
> ie if I purchase 1 calls of GOOG and they expire There shouldn't be holding requirements for going long on options. At the most you lose your hypothetical gains (tho, wouldn't most brokers be nice enough to automatically exercise-and-sell for you for a small commission?) The problem is when you write options.

acchow 9y ago

This is so bad. I know people who actually think it's just about betting it go up or down, like the higher orders don't exist (the greeks).

nosefrog 9y ago

What's wrong with removing the jargon from stock trading?

TheHypnotist 9y ago
The trouble is that Robinhood has a very low barrier of entry and now you have laymen who, if they don't understand basic finance terms, likely do not understand the fundamentals of trading options.
- truthteller11 9y ago
  Like the javascript in the programming field? Go figure.
  - perl4ever 9y ago
    If you want to write programs without really having a clue, that's fine and educational for most purposes, just not if you're hacking your personal vehicle, pacemaker, or nuclear reactor.
    - truthteller11 9y ago
      If someone want to burn all their personal money, so what? So basically: At least they will not be programming insecure things, even websites that leak millions of records every week by "thinking they know programming". Too much double standard: "Lets make programming accessible so everyone can become code monkeys without clue, but do not touch my precious stock trading terms. We do not want anyone trying to get rich without a clue."
      - contravariant 9y ago
        This is like arguing against literacy because gambling has legal restrictions.
- jbob2000 9y ago

hn_throwaway_99 9y ago

Honestly, this doesn't surprise me at all. The interface in Robinhood makes me think it can only be useful for people that have 0 idea what they are doing. Case in point: their graphs (at least on Android) have no labled Y axis! Seriously, WTF.

micaksica 9y ago
> their graphs (at least on Android) have no labled Y axis! It's the same on iOS. I can't say I'm happy with Robinhood. It's dumbing down something that can get you into a world of financial pain if you don't know what you're doing. If they want to target people that don't understand what they are playing with, they shouldn't be giving away options/crypto access/margin buying to people that don't understand those concepts. Expect a lot of people to lose a lot of money. /r/stupidfinance has some pretty great posts in which people were left in the cold after playing with fire in RH.
- abaldwin7302 9y ago
  I know very little about stock trading. I shouldn't get in a world of financial pain if I don't trade on margin (Robinhood Gold Buying Power) and only transfer money I can afford to lose right? That is treating Robinhood like a casino. I recognize I don't know what I'm doing at the casino. Therefore I don't use a credit card to buy casino chips and I have a hard stop-loss of a couple hundred bucks that's budgeted as entertainment money.
twelve40 9y ago
Seriously maddening : ( How hard was it to put the ticks on the axis? So that at least I can gauge how big the changes are? Those graphs are comically useless...

fogzen 9y ago

As if we needed another reminder that Wall Street is a casino underwritten by the taxpayers. A welfare program run by the Fed for the rich. A market for fools, not a necessary institution to capitalize business. I guess it's better than trading slaves.

perl4ever 9y ago
Surely it can be both a casino for the ignorant and a necessary institution for the educated and intelligent.

sterban 9y ago

I believe this is just under the "Discover" option. When selecting an expiration, it is displayed as Call/Put.

austenallred 9y ago
Nope, this is under FB -> trade options

Apocryphon 9y ago

Is there a currently updated Twitter or a Tumblr catching ridiculously silly app UX decisions like this? Similar to: https://twitter.com/internetofshit https://twitter.com/internetofshit or the defunct Read the Fucking HIG