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I am at an early stage startup which is using Java (and Kotlin) on the server-side. There are various reasons for this, most of them pragmatic, but also some te
by ganonm 9y ago
I am at an early stage startup which is using Java (and Kotlin) on the server-side. There are various reasons for this, most of them pragmatic, but also some technical ones.
Pragmatic reasons:
- Many engineers know Java to at least an intermediate level, so they can be productive quicker (and hiring is easier)
- We had some existing libraries written in Java, so integrating them with the web platform was much easier if we went down the JVM route
- Java is the language most familiar to members of the startup (including me, although I also have experience in RoR, Kotlin, ObjectiveC and JavaScript)
Technical:
- Java is generally very performant and running on the JVM means we don't generally have to worry about platform specific issues (there are well known exceptions of course e.g. file path issues)
- The language itself is at a reasonable level of abstraction. It is strongly typed and IMO, writing a non-trivial backend in a dynamically typed language is a sub-optimal choice. It has a huge ecosystem of robust, battle tested libraries that are indispensable to us (e.g. JGraphT). There is a huge community - you are unlikely to run into 'uncharted' territory
- It is popular to hate on Java but it really isn't that bad a language, especially if you aim to follow guidelines like those in Effective Java (probably my favourite programming book) e.g. avoiding mutable state and side-effects. It will never be as good as a modern language like Kotlin (data classes are my favourite feature there), but it is good enough
- The server frameworks available are seriously robust and 'just work'
- There is always the option of using alternative JVM languages (we use Kotlin for a large part of the backend)
In summary, we are 6 months into developing the web platform, progress is rapid, and we have no regrets (yet) about the technology choices. IMO, sometimes boring is best.
- chris_wot 9y agoI think people must think I hate Java. I don’t. I think it’s great and I love Spring, though I have been mostly programming in C++ so haven’t touched Java in a long while personally. I’m more concerned with the copyright status of Java APIs. Can you really be sure that you will be safe from Oracle’s clutches?
- ganonm 9y agoI had assumed you weren't a fan, apologies for jumping to conclusions. The copyright concerns are valid - I've only followed the whole Oracle vs. Google litigation from a distance. I'm hoping the little guys like us won't be affected.
- maltalex 9y ago> I’m more concerned with the copyright status of Java APIs Building something using OpenJDK using Java APIs shouldn't get you in any trouble. What got Google in trouble with Oracle was that they copied and re-implemented all of Java's APIs. Are you planning on doing something similar?
- michaelcampbell 9y ago> What got Google in trouble with Oracle ... was a big wallet.
- chris_wot 9y agoFunny, the WINE project does this.
- maltalex 9y agoSo does ReactOS. Only both projects are pretty pointless to sue since they aren't making any money.
- vbezhenar 9y agoIf Oracle would win this lawsuit, entire industry will be in a serious trouble. Don't forget to pay IBM for every SQL statement you wrote, they invented SQL as an API for relational database after all.
- javier2 9y agoI like java. I don't love it, but it's a trusty workhorse and a nice tool with a great ecosystem.
- abalone 9y agoThose are good reasons. What determines when you use Kotlin over Java?
- ganonm 9y agoI work mostly solo on the web platform which is in Kotlin. It uses our 3D printing algorithms which are written in Java (which I also work on). Some weeks I'm writing mostly Java, others Kotlin. We're looking for engineers in London incidentally, if anyone is interested. See my post in this month's who's hiring.
- haglin 9y ago> It will never be as good as a modern language like Kotlin (data classes are my favourite feature there), but it is good enough Data classes may come to Java. http://cr.openjdk.java.net/~briangoetz/amber/datum.html http://cr.openjdk.java.net/~briangoetz/amber/datum.html http://mail.openjdk.java.net/pipermail/amber-spec-experts/2018-March/000400.html http://mail.openjdk.java.net/pipermail/amber-spec-experts/20... Fibers, continuations, string literals, pattern matching and value types are in the works. http://cr.openjdk.java.net/~rpressler/loom/Loom-Proposal.html http://cr.openjdk.java.net/~rpressler/loom/Loom-Proposal.htm... http://openjdk.java.net/jeps/326 http://openjdk.java.net/jeps/326 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=n3_8YcYKScw https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=n3_8YcYKScw http://openjdk.java.net/projects/valhalla/ http://openjdk.java.net/projects/valhalla/