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I heard an interesting view on this. Engineers build technologies like TensorFlow and demos of object recognition, which have obvious applications in drone com

by evmar 9y ago

I heard an interesting view on this. Engineers build technologies like TensorFlow and demos of object recognition, which have obvious applications in drone combat (just stuff your model into the missile targeting system). Yet then when this tech is used for this purpose they're shocked, shocked -- and as long as they're not specifically building the missile targeting systems themselves they feel like their hands are clean? I'm not even sure what the consequence of this argument is; pretty much anything you build can indirectly contribute to the military industrial complex, even something innocuous like dev infra. But I also don't think that weak "everything is equivalent" argument means you're suddenly absolved of responsibility. One thing I am pretty sure of is that it must feel awful to waste your short time on earth on building tools specifically for killing.

frostwhale 9y ago
It's nothing more than an attempt for Silicon Valley to pretend that they're a bastion of pure innovation, where all advancements are only for good. It's naive and extremely holier-than-thou.
- Florin_Andrei 9y ago
  Well, that's one extreme. The other extreme is that some folks actually have a conscience. Reality is probably on a continuum in between.
  - gaius 9y ago
    The other extreme is that some folks actually have a conscience Those people are not working in AdTech.
    - VikingCoder 9y ago
      You want to have that conversation with them? Because some of them are right here. In fact some of them just got shot at yesterday. Is it hyperbole, or do you honestly feel that trying to connect users with products they might like is inherently unconscionable?
      - gaius 9y ago
        As I said yesterday, if someone needs something, they’ll just go out and buy it. Ads are fundamentally about using psychological tricks to make people buy things they don’t need, or even want once the manipulation has worn off
        pteredactyl 9y ago
        Yea, but sometimes I don't know about a product. For example, I tried to find a pair of quality underwear that did not have some guys name above the crotch for years. I heard mention of me undies on a podcast, checked it out, and am now a happy customer. ( this is not a paid post )
      - AndrewUnmuted 9y ago
        > trying to connect users with products they might like It is delusional to suggest that this is the goal of ad-tech. The only people thinking about the users and the products are the creative teams that make the ads themselves. Ad-tech, on the other hand, engages in dragnet data mining operations that serve the creative/design teams at ad agencies. The way the ad-tech industry has decided to go about things absolutely is inherently unconscionable. The unrestrained nonsense they've unleashed on the web over the past two decades have resulted in leaving nearly all internet users vulnerable to malicious code, privacy loss, and other horrible things. > some of them just got shot at yesterday Nice appeal to emotion there. But how do you know what the people at YouTube HQ did for a living? Do you have insider information? By all means, don't hold back.
        VikingCoder 9y ago
        Do you know anyone who works on ad-tech? Or are you making uninformed hyperbolic statements? > The unrestrained nonsense they've unleashed on the web over the past two decades I feel sometimes like I'm the only one who remembers how awful, insulting, and dangerous ads were before. > But how do you know what the people at YouTube HQ did for a living? Do you have insider information? By all means, don't hold back. I asked, "You want to have that conversation with them?" I'll ask you the same thing. You know some of them are here. They're your peers. But feel free to demonize them without talking to them.
    - pteredactyl 9y ago
      lol
- pteredactyl 9y ago
  I'm a part of it. And agree. The naivete can be astounding.
larkeith 9y ago
I would suggest that there is a very large difference between designing FOSS software, such as Tensorflow, that can be used for a multitude of applications, and developing for a company or project that is explicitly funded by military purposes. Advancing technology that has secondary applications in warfare is very different from focusing on the military aspect, and is not complicity.

by evmar 9y ago

frostwhale 9y ago

It's nothing more than an attempt for Silicon Valley to pretend that they're a bastion of pure innovation, where all advancements are only for good. It's naive and extremely holier-than-thou.

Florin_Andrei 9y ago
Well, that's one extreme. The other extreme is that some folks actually have a conscience. Reality is probably on a continuum in between.
- gaius 9y ago
  The other extreme is that some folks actually have a conscience Those people are not working in AdTech.
  - VikingCoder 9y ago
    You want to have that conversation with them? Because some of them are right here. In fact some of them just got shot at yesterday. Is it hyperbole, or do you honestly feel that trying to connect users with products they might like is inherently unconscionable?
    - gaius 9y ago
      As I said yesterday, if someone needs something, they’ll just go out and buy it. Ads are fundamentally about using psychological tricks to make people buy things they don’t need, or even want once the manipulation has worn off
      - pteredactyl 9y ago
        Yea, but sometimes I don't know about a product. For example, I tried to find a pair of quality underwear that did not have some guys name above the crotch for years. I heard mention of me undies on a podcast, checked it out, and am now a happy customer. ( this is not a paid post )
    - AndrewUnmuted 9y ago
      > trying to connect users with products they might like It is delusional to suggest that this is the goal of ad-tech. The only people thinking about the users and the products are the creative teams that make the ads themselves. Ad-tech, on the other hand, engages in dragnet data mining operations that serve the creative/design teams at ad agencies. The way the ad-tech industry has decided to go about things absolutely is inherently unconscionable. The unrestrained nonsense they've unleashed on the web over the past two decades have resulted in leaving nearly all internet users vulnerable to malicious code, privacy loss, and other horrible things. > some of them just got shot at yesterday Nice appeal to emotion there. But how do you know what the people at YouTube HQ did for a living? Do you have insider information? By all means, don't hold back.
      - VikingCoder 9y ago
        Do you know anyone who works on ad-tech? Or are you making uninformed hyperbolic statements? > The unrestrained nonsense they've unleashed on the web over the past two decades I feel sometimes like I'm the only one who remembers how awful, insulting, and dangerous ads were before. > But how do you know what the people at YouTube HQ did for a living? Do you have insider information? By all means, don't hold back. I asked, "You want to have that conversation with them?" I'll ask you the same thing. You know some of them are here. They're your peers. But feel free to demonize them without talking to them.
  - pteredactyl 9y ago
    lol
pteredactyl 9y ago
I'm a part of it. And agree. The naivete can be astounding.

larkeith 9y ago

I would suggest that there is a very large difference between designing FOSS software, such as Tensorflow, that can be used for a multitude of applications, and developing for a company or project that is explicitly funded by military purposes. Advancing technology that has secondary applications in warfare is very different from focusing on the military aspect, and is not complicity.