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>If you search her name on twitter, around 40% of what you see is right wing conspiracy theorists who assert, without evidence, that she was a member of ISIS. I

>If you search her name on twitter, around 40% of what you see is right wing conspiracy theorists who assert, without evidence, that she was a member of ISIS. I also noticed a smaller percentage of people asserting, again without evidence, that she was an NRA member. And neither appear to be true. >How do these get spread on Twitter? Are partisans mindlessly voting them up? Are bots behind this? Propaganda is part of the standard far right response to any outbreak of violence, I wouldn’t put too much stock in it. They’ll usually link the shooter to which ever group is closest to their skin color (isis, antifa, or blm) and probably doctor some photos if any evidence surfaces which could otherwise generate cognitive dissonance (e.g., Nicolas Cruz wearing his MAGA hat). The NRA angle is interesting though, I wonder if those are just more right wingers trying to muddy the waters or if the far left is adopting propaganda tactics of their own.

tristor 9y ago
I think a critical examination of the political sphere would show you that the far left has been using propaganda tactics for a very long time. It might even be most accurate to say that throughout recent human history that most of our current propaganda tactics were first discovered or invented by the far left.
- travmatt 9y ago
  Could you give me a rundown on American far left propaganda tactics you think I’m not aware of? Could you give me a rundown on why you believe the far left invented modern propaganda tactics? As far as I can tell, most modern propaganda tactics originate or start with Russia’s new nonlinear warfare campaigns (gerasimov doctrine), and have been used heavily by Putin in Ukraine and more recently across Europe. I have a hard time seeing him as a far left figure, for obvious reasons.
  - hankhill 9y ago
    the Russian trolls have pretty much taken over HN at this point wrt political discussion. either that or Silicon Valley really really loves Putin and hates democracy. Any criticism of extremist right wing politics gets immediately flagged and downvoted into irrelevance.
  - tristor 9y ago
    I don't think that a comment on Hacker News is the right place for me to write an expository essay, but I was making reference to a few things in particular. Before I briefly respond I should point out that I don't necessarily think propaganda is inherently bad, it's just a fact of democracy and the need to influence large groups of people to a particular viewpoint. There's a huge negative connotation in the term, but propaganda in a lot of ways is no different socially than advertising. 1. Both the far right and the far left are utilizing memes and "fake news" on social media in order to influence opinion through directed propaganda. This is a relatively new development, because social media is a relatively new development. Interestingly, politicians on the left and similar activist groups have been far more effective and successful in this regard, partly because they're often the first to make use of new platforms and they tend to be managed and composed of younger audiences which innately are more familiar with the social media territory including the uses of meming. If you look back to the early 2000s you'll see that social media was an important gathering place for activists and organizers on the left preparing for the push after the 2nd term of Bush and how effective social media was in helping the election of Obama. Not all of this was strictly propaganda, but a lot of it was. 2. Most of the basic techniques of manufacturing and spreading propaganda were created far before the Internet was even a concept. Many of them were explicitly created and used by the Left as a method to organize people across wide geographic areas to do coordinated activities. This is most strongly associated with the way that Marxist rebellions occurred in many parts of the world in the early parts of the 20th century. This later morphed under these Leftist government to adopt some of the propaganda techniques developed during WWII by both sides of the conflict along with other new techniques in order to effectively control the populace after they seized power. Probably the primary outcome of this, and a doctrine which was extensively used by the USSR in particular, was the creation of the model for agitprop. Agitprop continues to be created to this day and is an effective method of inculcating ideas into a populace and shifting the Overton window. It's used by Leftists in Hollywood to help influence the viewpoint of Americans and those abroad, and in some cases is used through the US's worldwide cultural influence to spread the ideas of democracy itself. I reiterate that propaganda isn't necessarily inherently bad. 3. The Gerasimov Doctrine doesn't exist. Not only that, if it /did/ exist, the outcome of it is that it makes the US look weak and particularly makes Trump/Republicans look weak on the international stage. While there is strong evidence that the Russian government influenced the outcome of the 2016 election in the US, this does not in and of itself imply that this is "right-wing propaganda" or that it's necessarily a tool of the Right. The person who originally coined the term "Gerasimov Doctrine" has written an editorial on this topic [1] [1]: http://foreignpolicy.com/2018/03/05/im-sorry-for-creating-the-gerasimov-doctrine/ http://foreignpolicy.com/2018/03/05/im-sorry-for-creating-th...
njarboe 9y ago
Propaganda is part of the standard for any group trying to control the narrative in a democracy. I would suggest Chomsky and Herman's book "Manufacturing Consent" for more details.
- travmatt 9y ago
  The American far left creates and disseminates far less propaganda than the far right does, although I’m open to hear evidence otherwise. For whatever odd reason it seems that the left in general is far less amiable to inflammatory propaganda - for example, there’s much more evidence that Donald trump coordinated his campaign with foreign intelligence services than there is evidence that Obama is a socialist Muslim or that Hillary Clinton was complicit in child sex trafficking or satanic rituals. In my estimation I’d say that the main tools of the far left are currently censorship and ostracism within communities, although the far right engages in these practices just as avidly.

tristor 9y ago

I think a critical examination of the political sphere would show you that the far left has been using propaganda tactics for a very long time. It might even be most accurate to say that throughout recent human history that most of our current propaganda tactics were first discovered or invented by the far left.

travmatt 9y ago
Could you give me a rundown on American far left propaganda tactics you think I’m not aware of? Could you give me a rundown on why you believe the far left invented modern propaganda tactics? As far as I can tell, most modern propaganda tactics originate or start with Russia’s new nonlinear warfare campaigns (gerasimov doctrine), and have been used heavily by Putin in Ukraine and more recently across Europe. I have a hard time seeing him as a far left figure, for obvious reasons.
- hankhill 9y ago
  the Russian trolls have pretty much taken over HN at this point wrt political discussion. either that or Silicon Valley really really loves Putin and hates democracy. Any criticism of extremist right wing politics gets immediately flagged and downvoted into irrelevance.
- tristor 9y ago
  I don't think that a comment on Hacker News is the right place for me to write an expository essay, but I was making reference to a few things in particular. Before I briefly respond I should point out that I don't necessarily think propaganda is inherently bad, it's just a fact of democracy and the need to influence large groups of people to a particular viewpoint. There's a huge negative connotation in the term, but propaganda in a lot of ways is no different socially than advertising. 1. Both the far right and the far left are utilizing memes and "fake news" on social media in order to influence opinion through directed propaganda. This is a relatively new development, because social media is a relatively new development. Interestingly, politicians on the left and similar activist groups have been far more effective and successful in this regard, partly because they're often the first to make use of new platforms and they tend to be managed and composed of younger audiences which innately are more familiar with the social media territory including the uses of meming. If you look back to the early 2000s you'll see that social media was an important gathering place for activists and organizers on the left preparing for the push after the 2nd term of Bush and how effective social media was in helping the election of Obama. Not all of this was strictly propaganda, but a lot of it was. 2. Most of the basic techniques of manufacturing and spreading propaganda were created far before the Internet was even a concept. Many of them were explicitly created and used by the Left as a method to organize people across wide geographic areas to do coordinated activities. This is most strongly associated with the way that Marxist rebellions occurred in many parts of the world in the early parts of the 20th century. This later morphed under these Leftist government to adopt some of the propaganda techniques developed during WWII by both sides of the conflict along with other new techniques in order to effectively control the populace after they seized power. Probably the primary outcome of this, and a doctrine which was extensively used by the USSR in particular, was the creation of the model for agitprop. Agitprop continues to be created to this day and is an effective method of inculcating ideas into a populace and shifting the Overton window. It's used by Leftists in Hollywood to help influence the viewpoint of Americans and those abroad, and in some cases is used through the US's worldwide cultural influence to spread the ideas of democracy itself. I reiterate that propaganda isn't necessarily inherently bad. 3. The Gerasimov Doctrine doesn't exist. Not only that, if it /did/ exist, the outcome of it is that it makes the US look weak and particularly makes Trump/Republicans look weak on the international stage. While there is strong evidence that the Russian government influenced the outcome of the 2016 election in the US, this does not in and of itself imply that this is "right-wing propaganda" or that it's necessarily a tool of the Right. The person who originally coined the term "Gerasimov Doctrine" has written an editorial on this topic [1] [1]: http://foreignpolicy.com/2018/03/05/im-sorry-for-creating-the-gerasimov-doctrine/ http://foreignpolicy.com/2018/03/05/im-sorry-for-creating-th...

njarboe 9y ago

Propaganda is part of the standard for any group trying to control the narrative in a democracy. I would suggest Chomsky and Herman's book "Manufacturing Consent" for more details.

travmatt 9y ago
The American far left creates and disseminates far less propaganda than the far right does, although I’m open to hear evidence otherwise. For whatever odd reason it seems that the left in general is far less amiable to inflammatory propaganda - for example, there’s much more evidence that Donald trump coordinated his campaign with foreign intelligence services than there is evidence that Obama is a socialist Muslim or that Hillary Clinton was complicit in child sex trafficking or satanic rituals. In my estimation I’d say that the main tools of the far left are currently censorship and ostracism within communities, although the far right engages in these practices just as avidly.