4 ms·

So what’s the deal with jurisdiction? YC is a US entity and GDPR is an EU law.

by trevyn 9y ago

jakeogh 9y ago
There is none. Unless YC has EU assets, they could go after those.
- huddo121 9y ago
  My understanding of it is that HN/YCombinator would also have to be targeting EU customers directly, such as by offering the service in EU languages (english probably wouldn't count) or offering prices in EU currencies.
  - jakeogh 9y ago
    Not trying to argue, I don't know the GDPR details, maybe it's written that way, but that wouldn't matter. EU law does not apply to US corporations or citizens unless they are in the EU or are concerned about getting assets taken that are in the EU.
    - zaarn 9y ago
      EU laws can totally apply to US corporations or citizens. It may not be enforceable however. (The US has a good history of applying their laws on non-US citizens, just check who has been sued over copyright violations)
      - jakeogh 9y ago
        Hard to say it applies of it's not enforceable. That's re-defining apply to meaninglessness. It's also a window into the argument that there's no attempt to make "global gov" via subversion of national sovereignty.
        zaarn 9y ago
        It's not entirely meaningless. If the law applies that means a corporation could get into hot water if customers or vendors in the EU don't want or can't trade with them anymore. The law applies to them in the sense that if they don't follow it, they face negative repercussions. It is not enforceable by the EU directly since they aren't in their jurisdiction. Application and Enforcement of Law are, atleast IMO, separate things. It's an implication relationship of Enforcement->Application. Application alone does not mean it is enforced but enforcement means it's applied. Difference being that if the law applies then the EU might want to enforce but lacks the teeth to. They would if they could.
        jakeogh 9y ago
        True. It's a nice demonstration of why capitalistic markets and sovereign countries are good things. If a company I do business with is subverting my rights (in this case the ability to even remember something), I'll gleefully stop using them. Astroturf corps are salivating at the possibilities.
        zaarn 9y ago
        The problem usually starts to occur when the company that starts subverting your rights is too monopolistic on a market with either a high barrier to entry or a strong networking effect (CPU/GPU vendors and social networks). In this case choosing another vendor may not be easy (find a GPU that isn't AMD/NVidia/Matrox and that works with most games or find a social network that allows the same reach as facebook or find a video sharing site with the same ad revenue and reach as youtube)
        jakeogh 9y ago
        I'm with you there. Antitrust law has been applied effectively (although in the FB case, I find it hard to come up with a technical argument as to why, it's just MySpace 2.0 and we will laugh about it years from now). I tend to jump into these conversations because it's often related to a push for more law.
  - cjbprime 9y ago
    Or placing Google Ads that promote HN targeted in European countries, which seems like a more plausible situation.
kiliankoe 9y ago
It applies to all EU citizens, no matter where your operations are based. It would make sense though for most companies to just treat everybody as an EU citizen for GDPR. Unless apparently you're Facebook and don't want to...
- trevyn 9y ago
  Ok, so I’m a US entity without EU presence and I violate EU law. Explain how this would impact me?
  - cjbprime 9y ago
    Maybe they can't enforce against you now, but maybe you have investors and they balk at an EU judgement against you, or maybe you plan to one day expand to the EU and now you can't.
  - dyu 9y ago
    Maybe something like Privacy Shield[0]. Granted, if you were not in US or EU, then it may be harder. [0] https://www.privacyshield.gov https://www.privacyshield.gov
  - singularity2001 9y ago
    we will try to extradite you and you will have to seek asylum in an Ecuadorian embassy.
  - unicornporn 9y ago
    > without EU presence If you offer no services that will be used by citizens of the EU, you can just carry on.

So what’s the deal with jurisdiction? YC is a US entity and GDPR is an EU law.

by trevyn 9y ago

So what’s the deal with jurisdiction? YC is a US entity and GDPR is an EU law.

jakeogh 9y ago

There is none. Unless YC has EU assets, they could go after those.

huddo121 9y ago
My understanding of it is that HN/YCombinator would also have to be targeting EU customers directly, such as by offering the service in EU languages (english probably wouldn't count) or offering prices in EU currencies.
- jakeogh 9y ago
  Not trying to argue, I don't know the GDPR details, maybe it's written that way, but that wouldn't matter. EU law does not apply to US corporations or citizens unless they are in the EU or are concerned about getting assets taken that are in the EU.
  - zaarn 9y ago
    EU laws can totally apply to US corporations or citizens. It may not be enforceable however. (The US has a good history of applying their laws on non-US citizens, just check who has been sued over copyright violations)
    - jakeogh 9y ago
      Hard to say it applies of it's not enforceable. That's re-defining apply to meaninglessness. It's also a window into the argument that there's no attempt to make "global gov" via subversion of national sovereignty.
      - zaarn 9y ago
        It's not entirely meaningless. If the law applies that means a corporation could get into hot water if customers or vendors in the EU don't want or can't trade with them anymore. The law applies to them in the sense that if they don't follow it, they face negative repercussions. It is not enforceable by the EU directly since they aren't in their jurisdiction. Application and Enforcement of Law are, atleast IMO, separate things. It's an implication relationship of Enforcement->Application. Application alone does not mean it is enforced but enforcement means it's applied. Difference being that if the law applies then the EU might want to enforce but lacks the teeth to. They would if they could.
        jakeogh 9y ago
        True. It's a nice demonstration of why capitalistic markets and sovereign countries are good things. If a company I do business with is subverting my rights (in this case the ability to even remember something), I'll gleefully stop using them. Astroturf corps are salivating at the possibilities.
        zaarn 9y ago
        The problem usually starts to occur when the company that starts subverting your rights is too monopolistic on a market with either a high barrier to entry or a strong networking effect (CPU/GPU vendors and social networks). In this case choosing another vendor may not be easy (find a GPU that isn't AMD/NVidia/Matrox and that works with most games or find a social network that allows the same reach as facebook or find a video sharing site with the same ad revenue and reach as youtube)
        jakeogh 9y ago
        I'm with you there. Antitrust law has been applied effectively (although in the FB case, I find it hard to come up with a technical argument as to why, it's just MySpace 2.0 and we will laugh about it years from now). I tend to jump into these conversations because it's often related to a push for more law.
- cjbprime 9y ago
  Or placing Google Ads that promote HN targeted in European countries, which seems like a more plausible situation.

kiliankoe 9y ago

It applies to all EU citizens, no matter where your operations are based. It would make sense though for most companies to just treat everybody as an EU citizen for GDPR. Unless apparently you're Facebook and don't want to...

trevyn 9y ago
Ok, so I’m a US entity without EU presence and I violate EU law. Explain how this would impact me?
- cjbprime 9y ago
  Maybe they can't enforce against you now, but maybe you have investors and they balk at an EU judgement against you, or maybe you plan to one day expand to the EU and now you can't.
- dyu 9y ago
  Maybe something like Privacy Shield[0]. Granted, if you were not in US or EU, then it may be harder. [0] https://www.privacyshield.gov https://www.privacyshield.gov
- singularity2001 9y ago
  we will try to extradite you and you will have to seek asylum in an Ecuadorian embassy.
- unicornporn 9y ago
  > without EU presence If you offer no services that will be used by citizens of the EU, you can just carry on.