9 ms·

Ask HN: Non-technical employees don't get along with engineer

31 points by scxyz42 9y ago

I'm the CTO of a small startup with 9 full time employees. We have 2.5 engineers - Me, a senior SDE hired a year ago, and a new UX designer who doubles up as a part time FrontEnd Dev. 4 non-technical employees have logged complaints that my full-stack developer is curt/cold/condescending although the designer and I get along with him just fine. I've drawn a pretty hard line in defending him thus far, but have been taking more and more fire from the CEO. I've tried many process tweaks, 1:1 feedback, etc. Do you guys have any ideas to de-escalate or help the team get along better with each other?

Gibbon1 9y ago
> the designer and I get along with him just fine > 4 non-technical employees have logged complaints that my full-stack developer is curt/cold/condescending This is really bad news actually. Find a replacement for this guy and fire him.
- chris_wot 9y ago
  You're joking. It would have to be really awful behaviour to fire him.
  - Gibbon1 9y ago
    No I'm not joking at all. That the guy kisses up and craps down is a serious problem that needs to be dealt with by termination.
- HeyLaughingBoy 9y ago
  What do you do when the new hire is just as bad? This is not an unusual problem.
cjbprime 9y ago
Perhaps unpopular opinion: it sounds like the senior SDE isn't working out. Being non-condescending to other team members is a core part of the job. It shouldn't be persisting after you tell them that it's a problem that's causing serious conflict within the team. There's a lot of previous discussion you could look up about whether to tolerate "brilliant jerks" on your team. My take is we usually overestimate how brilliant they are and underestimate how toxic it is to have a jerk around.
- scxyz42 9y ago
  "brilliant jerks" - great background info. Thanks!
- mcv 9y ago
  This, pretty much. If you can't afford to fire him, you could shield for him for a while, have all contact between him and others go through you. But that inevitably kills his ability to grow within the company, it eats up your time, and is not a sustainable situation. Basically, either he needs to learn to interact with non-technical people (still the preferred solution, if possible), or he needs a work environment where he doesn't need to interact with non-technical people. It's up to you to decide whether your company can be that environment, and whether you want your company to be that environment.
- drinfinity 9y ago
  Yes, agreed. I apologise in advance for this non-PC and possible offensive remark, but I see nice people in our company dealing with these types and it's starting to bum me out. The obnoxious types me and colleagues have dealt with are, in _my personal opinion_, pretty obviously suffering from some type of Asperger and/or general social maladaptive malady and while they should be treated with dignity, it is not up to the rest of the company to adjust to _their_ problems.
  - slededit 9y ago
    If it is caused by a disability (e.g. Asperger) the ADA does require reasonable accommodation - which in fact does make it up to the rest of the company.
    - deleted 9y ago
      [deleted]
  - bjourne 9y ago
    If you had a wheelchair bound engineer, the company would adapt to their problems. Your situation is no different.
captain_perl 9y ago
1. Some people cannot accept it when somebody else ends a conversation first, but that's their problem. If that's the case, ignore it. 2. After that, the big gun is, "If you know somebody better, let me know." That ends the ankle-biting.
- scxyz42 9y ago
  Thanks! I'll use that as a last resort.
danielovichdk 9y ago
What does your SDE say to these allegations? Does he agree at all? Whats his feedback?
- scxyz42 9y ago
  He's very concise, a bit rough around the edges and got a dry sense of humor. He told me he means well and has tried to be more verbose (slack is 1/2 of all our communication). He's also tried to tone down the dry. He really enjoys working with 2/4 folks who complained about him and wants to make it better.
  - fatterypt 9y ago
    I've been through a situation like that in a very international team, where culture played a significant factor in how people communicate. Once people knew about their preferences, it became easier for them to collaborate. Did you try to do some team building activities with the whole group? Sometimes getting them to connect on a more personal level gets people to open up.
  - danielovichdk 9y ago
    Respect goes both ways, no matter your rank or status. And like I mentioned in another comment, professionals must understand their role and how they carry it out. To me it doesn't sound like he is a problem, it's sounds like he has integrity. And that you shall not bend.
    - ThePadawan 9y ago
      I can somewhat relate to the engineer in question - in my last position, I had to contend with the suggestion between colleagues that I was being very direct, stemming from the fact that I am unashamedly German in an international team. I had colleagues from all over the world and found that I generally meshed well with those which matched my attitude of calling a spade a spade, but conflicted with those which took the opposite approach. Even a (IMO) statement such as "I'm not totally on board with this idea yet - could we look into estimating the cost of this feature before we start coding?" would raise hackles. It is my belief that there might just be some cultural sensitivity training required in OP's scenario.
cupcake-unicorn 9y ago
I'm going to throw out a possibly unpopular opinion, because I have a feeling this is exactly what was going on at my old workplace. What is the gender of the 4 employees who have a problem with the senior SDE? At my workplace I was the only female employee and when I ever had complaints against someone for being condescending/etc the response was similar to yours, "But I never had that experience with him. He's a nice guy." Understand that you only see one side of your senior dev. You don't get to see how he interacts with women or other minorities. An example I like to give is that even Senator Obama experienced people being fearful and locking their cars when he went out to the parking lot late at night. That's an experience that white people just don't have, and imagine being the only one to experience that or report that in a group of other people who have never ever been the target of such behavior. "But I never noticed it!" If this does turn out to be the case I'd suggest you have a serious chat about diversity in your company. I ended up leaving tech due to my similar experience in my last company. Saying, "We're pretty diverse for a group of white dudes" isn't enough. Listen to the minorities at your company and their experiences and don't invalidate them or dismiss them because you haven't experienced it. You could learn a lot and save some people from leaving the industry.
- scxyz42 9y ago
  I understand your pain - I'm a female CTO. Gender of the 4 is mixed and we have a pretty even gender ratio overall.
  - DoreenMichele 9y ago
    Let me respectfully suggest that part of the problem may be your gender. Men and women both expect women to do emotional labor on behalf of others, often to an unreasonable degree. If that is a factor, there's no easy solution. But if it is a factor, it may help to be aware of the issue. If you aren't familiar, emotional labor is kind of a hot catch phrase and there are articles and discussions out there. I tend to be good at the emotional labor thing and it has a history of getting me imposed upon to an unreasonable degree. People often expect me to deeply respect them and kiss their boo-boos and make them feel okay about everything. This often occurs while I am being treated very disrespectfully and can't get my needs met. If you are the CTO, why is peacemaking your job? That isn't usually one of the official duties of a CTO, is it? If that is the issue, you will need to learn to alter your behavior so people feel less free to impose in this manner. You will also need to think through just how much you need to be interceding in the relationships of employees. You can work on doing ice breaker exercises and team building exercises etc. But if the real problem is that you are being viewed as the team mom and people want you to fix everything and expect perfection, that may not fully resolve the issue.
voycey 9y ago
Question - are the non-technical employees requesting work done by the senior developer directly to him? Some developers are often just that - hard headed coders, if they haven't come from a role or a background that has required them to "Customer Facing" then you need to re-evaluate the reporting chain or if it is crucial that they be "customer facing" then you need to broach the subject with him that he needs to understand how to talk to them. As CTO of a small company you should head up the engineering team, if required you will need to act as the go between to get the requirements distilled into a format your senior dev can then action with the rest of the team. If you cant absorb this responsibility then you need to get a project manager of some sort in to manage it :)
- scxyz42 9y ago
  Thanks! We're so small that it used to be a direct request. Since, I've tried to be more of a buffer / create better processes - but you're right. I can probably try to do more.
EnderMB 9y ago
Out of interest, where does the chain of command lie? I've worked with people in the past that respect the chain o' command to such a degree that they will follow everything a more senior member of staff will say, but will both ignore and undermine what people on their level or below say. I've also noticed a trend where they will respect the "workers" of the office, but have little respect for Project Managers or anyone they don't perceive to be battling on the front lines. In the past, a good way to get around this was to ensure that everything that needed doing was in writing. This way, everyone knew what was expected of them, and it was much harder for someone to be confrontational or condescending if any of this was in writing.
- scxyz42 9y ago
  More explicit expectations makes sense. I'm his manager so others would have to use indirect influence to get his help outside of sprint work items.
danielovichdk 9y ago
Okay, I will try to elaborate on my earlier comment. Given the fact that it's a small company I will take it (from own experience), that the process or agility around on how you produce software is blurred and probably not totally in place. The missing "boundaries" for some developers can be stressful and if a process is missing that can lead to frustration. When I lead teams I also try to "cut of" or act as a buffer to the business side of the team, and have them focus and hold them accountable for what they are good at (and that's often sales, marketing, budgets etc.). And let me and the team do what we're good at. The communication around these things most be done a proper professional fashion. Down the line no company can function with a CEO that believes he/she has a say in how a developer should act outside his own temple. So many teams allow too much interference from the outside. They shouldn't be allowed. Focus on what you and you're team is good at and have the rest of the company focus on what they are good at.
- scxyz42 9y ago
  The missing "boundaries" and blurred processes definitely play a major role. When I led teams at a larger tech company, the thicker processes were part of the buffer/liaison. In contrast, the lack of/lean amount of processes here for the sake of agility makes this less of a white and black issue.
cimmanom 9y ago
Is the engineer aware of what it is about their communication style that's making others uncomfortable? Even the person most motivated to change won't improve if they don't know what constitutes "better" or "worse". There are different communication cultures even within a country or a region. For instance, engineering culture (in many communities or companies) accepts bluntness and directness in ways that the general culture often does not. Or people who grew up on the US coasts are often uncultured to more blunt, direct, fast-paced communication styles than those who grew up in the Midwest or South. Some families treat (friendly) confrontation and debate as a game, whereas others interpret it as conflict or rudeness or even power struggle. If you grow up communicating in one style, you may not be aware that other people use other styles. And even if you are, you may not be aware of how that causes them to interpret your own style. So don't just tell your engineer "change". Give him training in the communication style you expect him to use in the workplace. If you haven't already, I suggest you get some concrete examples from the employees who submitted the complaints. Then spend half an hour to an hour once a week role-playing similar conversations with your engineer. During these sessions, give clear feedback on what comes across as blunt or rude or condescending (and why), and suggest different phrasing or approaches that might be more diplomatic. Keep doing this until you no longer have to suggest significant changes.
akulbe 9y ago
It's going to kill morale if you keep that guy around. If they're talking to you that much about him, there's probably a lot more they're talking about that you never hear. Fit goes further than skill, in my opinion. If you want to keep your non-tech folks around, let that guy go, and hire for fit. You'd be doing yourself massive favors.
- scxyz42 9y ago
  Thanks!
beegeezuz 9y ago
Maybe you guys just don't know what you're doing? I mean asking complete strangers on the internet how to lead your team doesn't really strike confidence in me. Perhaps you should start with the titles. CEO is someone managing a corporation of thousands of people, not a 9-person start-up. Sorry for being crude and blunt.
barrystaes 9y ago
Good chance that all involved share the same common goal (startup success) and they should use that as a base to respect each other and colaborate. From your experience with him I guess this employee does not intend to be curt/cold/condescending to other people, but might appear "cold" discussing some technical subjects. Others might expect a "warm" conversation instead. Lets call this conversation VS discussion. There's a place for both. Sometimes even in the same meeting. But i tend to think when there is clarity beforehand, its best for both parties. Even warm feedback can land as a cold discussion if not handled with consideration.
dpeck 9y ago
Get rid of the problem employee, toxicity will extend and it will hamper communication and trust. If you’re having these problems with such a small group that should still be in the “all for one one for all” stage it’s going to continue and be much more painful to deal with down the line if you have success. Also if you’re starting to catch fire from your CEO (founder/cofounder) about it that’s a good indication that it’s already leading to those problems and is effecting your standing/trust with the rest of the company.
- scxyz42 9y ago
  Good point - thank you!
chad_strategic 9y ago
This if kinda of funny, because I was the used to be the jerk full-stack developer. My reasons where the following: 1. Job was to easy for me. 2. The non technical people where not very bright. (seriously they where just winging it.) 3. I didn't care. 4. Wasn't challenged. 5. Non technical people treated me as a code monkey, when I first got there. 6. I had the power. Even if the fired me, it would take them weeks to get back up and running. 7. As of right now, Developers have the power. Oddly, enough I am not a jerk, but I didn't like being taken advantage of in this particular situation.
mindhash 9y ago
In my experience, its best not to get involved in behavioral aspects of team being engineering lead. You need to get work done and such things change the context of your conversation. But if this is visibly affecting delivery quality or timeline then it makes sense to get involved. If it comes to that, I would defend my team member until proven guilty. Ask for specific scenarios and then if they seem serious then just pass a word to team member that there is heat around this issue. And he / she could have said this or handled this way. Sometimes people are what they are. It doesn't occur to them that they are offending others. You also can't expect them to change without patience n guidance. Keep sharing scenarios and what he could have done better. If this is behavioral problem then he would take time to come out of it.
afarrell 9y ago
> curt/cold/condescending This is a rather broad and not very actionable criticism. Can you get more specific feedback? For example, something of the form "In situation X, you did/said Y, and that led me to think Z" is more actionable. Also, it is useful to pay attention to the classification problems that your engineer faces. There is a sometimes a balance between being condescending by giving someone info they already know and not providing enough context for an explanation. The book "Thanks for the Feedback" [1] is a good read and Erika Carlson's talk[2] from Lead Developer UK is a good watch. [1] https://www.amazon.co.uk/Thanks-Feedback-Science-Receiving-Well/dp/1611762510 https://www.amazon.co.uk/Thanks-Feedback-Science-Receiving-W... [2] https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RsfNS9HSWQs https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RsfNS9HSWQs
shostack 9y ago
What are the roles of the four non-technical employees who have complained? You mentioned elsewhere that they are submitting requests directly to this engineer--what sorts of requests? When I've encountered and had to help solve for this sort of thing in the past, there was usually something deeper at the root of it. In one case it was the fact that people on the marketing team were not able to formulate their engineering asks to a sufficiently technical degree, or understand the ideal workflow of an engineer. So what would happen is engineers would get frustrated fielding these requests because they lacked most of the necessary information needed to build anything, and were constantly asked to support multiple significant scope changes throughout the process. That would understandably frustrate many people. But once we identified that as one of the big issues, we were able to develop process to help address it. Things like documenting commonly asked technical specifics up front, or setting milestones and making sure everyone understood the impact of changing things helped streamline things. Another big piece of that was having someone who could bridge that gap from a communication standpoint. That ended up being me for a lot of it, which was fun since while I am a marketer, I'm fairly technical and usually get on very well with engineers. If two people can't speak a common language, sometimes the easiest solution is to work through a third person who can translate.
- scxyz42 9y ago
  Customer support and marketing. Requests were more fluid but have since been formalized, e.g. different bug templates to help clear out some of the back and forth. Thanks for this - sounds like we're trying to do some things right.
  - shostack 9y ago
    Yep, I'm guessing there may be similar issues. Hard to say without more context or hearing examples of some of the offending remarks. For example, if an engineer is explaining something technical in a condescending manner to someone non-technical who may struggle to grasp it, that's on the engineer and their communication skills. However if they are being curt and coming across cold and frustrated because they keep asking for the same things every time and don't get them, that's a process issue and an easily solved one at that. Sounds like you may benefit from digging deeper into people's issues on this to identify how much is really communication style and skills vs. symptoms of process issues.
ecesena 9y ago
Honestly, I think you should fire him, or the other 4 employees. At your stage, you can't be distracted by this kind of issues. You should also review your hiring process and see how you can avoid this in the future, I can guess that you interviewed the technical people, and your CEO the non-technical ones, and you (together) didn't catch this as a potential issue.
soneca 9y ago
"although the designer and I get along with him just fine" It is very common that arrogant developers are condescending to non-tech people and not to tech people, considering themselves a special breed of human beings. "I've drawn a pretty hard line in defending him thus far" Why? Do you have evidence that the SDE is right? 4 different complains on a 9 employees company seems to indicate that's not the case.
- scxyz42 9y ago
  The minimal 'evidence' collected so far, I feel like can be interpreted as miscommunication or a difference in style. I will try to gather more. I agree though, 4/9 is concerning. Thanks!

31 points by scxyz42 9y ago

Gibbon1 9y ago

> the designer and I get along with him just fine > 4 non-technical employees have logged complaints that my full-stack developer is curt/cold/condescending This is really bad news actually. Find a replacement for this guy and fire him.

chris_wot 9y ago
You're joking. It would have to be really awful behaviour to fire him.
- Gibbon1 9y ago
  No I'm not joking at all. That the guy kisses up and craps down is a serious problem that needs to be dealt with by termination.
HeyLaughingBoy 9y ago
What do you do when the new hire is just as bad? This is not an unusual problem.

cjbprime 9y ago

Perhaps unpopular opinion: it sounds like the senior SDE isn't working out. Being non-condescending to other team members is a core part of the job. It shouldn't be persisting after you tell them that it's a problem that's causing serious conflict within the team. There's a lot of previous discussion you could look up about whether to tolerate "brilliant jerks" on your team. My take is we usually overestimate how brilliant they are and underestimate how toxic it is to have a jerk around.

scxyz42 9y ago
"brilliant jerks" - great background info. Thanks!
mcv 9y ago
This, pretty much. If you can't afford to fire him, you could shield for him for a while, have all contact between him and others go through you. But that inevitably kills his ability to grow within the company, it eats up your time, and is not a sustainable situation. Basically, either he needs to learn to interact with non-technical people (still the preferred solution, if possible), or he needs a work environment where he doesn't need to interact with non-technical people. It's up to you to decide whether your company can be that environment, and whether you want your company to be that environment.
drinfinity 9y ago
Yes, agreed. I apologise in advance for this non-PC and possible offensive remark, but I see nice people in our company dealing with these types and it's starting to bum me out. The obnoxious types me and colleagues have dealt with are, in _my personal opinion_, pretty obviously suffering from some type of Asperger and/or general social maladaptive malady and while they should be treated with dignity, it is not up to the rest of the company to adjust to _their_ problems.
- slededit 9y ago
  If it is caused by a disability (e.g. Asperger) the ADA does require reasonable accommodation - which in fact does make it up to the rest of the company.
  - deleted 9y ago
    [deleted]
- bjourne 9y ago
  If you had a wheelchair bound engineer, the company would adapt to their problems. Your situation is no different.

captain_perl 9y ago

1. Some people cannot accept it when somebody else ends a conversation first, but that's their problem. If that's the case, ignore it. 2. After that, the big gun is, "If you know somebody better, let me know." That ends the ankle-biting.

scxyz42 9y ago
Thanks! I'll use that as a last resort.

danielovichdk 9y ago

What does your SDE say to these allegations? Does he agree at all? Whats his feedback?

scxyz42 9y ago
He's very concise, a bit rough around the edges and got a dry sense of humor. He told me he means well and has tried to be more verbose (slack is 1/2 of all our communication). He's also tried to tone down the dry. He really enjoys working with 2/4 folks who complained about him and wants to make it better.
- fatterypt 9y ago
  I've been through a situation like that in a very international team, where culture played a significant factor in how people communicate. Once people knew about their preferences, it became easier for them to collaborate. Did you try to do some team building activities with the whole group? Sometimes getting them to connect on a more personal level gets people to open up.
- danielovichdk 9y ago
  Respect goes both ways, no matter your rank or status. And like I mentioned in another comment, professionals must understand their role and how they carry it out. To me it doesn't sound like he is a problem, it's sounds like he has integrity. And that you shall not bend.
  - ThePadawan 9y ago
    I can somewhat relate to the engineer in question - in my last position, I had to contend with the suggestion between colleagues that I was being very direct, stemming from the fact that I am unashamedly German in an international team. I had colleagues from all over the world and found that I generally meshed well with those which matched my attitude of calling a spade a spade, but conflicted with those which took the opposite approach. Even a (IMO) statement such as "I'm not totally on board with this idea yet - could we look into estimating the cost of this feature before we start coding?" would raise hackles. It is my belief that there might just be some cultural sensitivity training required in OP's scenario.

cupcake-unicorn 9y ago

I'm going to throw out a possibly unpopular opinion, because I have a feeling this is exactly what was going on at my old workplace. What is the gender of the 4 employees who have a problem with the senior SDE? At my workplace I was the only female employee and when I ever had complaints against someone for being condescending/etc the response was similar to yours, "But I never had that experience with him. He's a nice guy." Understand that you only see one side of your senior dev. You don't get to see how he interacts with women or other minorities. An example I like to give is that even Senator Obama experienced people being fearful and locking their cars when he went out to the parking lot late at night. That's an experience that white people just don't have, and imagine being the only one to experience that or report that in a group of other people who have never ever been the target of such behavior. "But I never noticed it!" If this does turn out to be the case I'd suggest you have a serious chat about diversity in your company. I ended up leaving tech due to my similar experience in my last company. Saying, "We're pretty diverse for a group of white dudes" isn't enough. Listen to the minorities at your company and their experiences and don't invalidate them or dismiss them because you haven't experienced it. You could learn a lot and save some people from leaving the industry.

scxyz42 9y ago
I understand your pain - I'm a female CTO. Gender of the 4 is mixed and we have a pretty even gender ratio overall.
- DoreenMichele 9y ago
  Let me respectfully suggest that part of the problem may be your gender. Men and women both expect women to do emotional labor on behalf of others, often to an unreasonable degree. If that is a factor, there's no easy solution. But if it is a factor, it may help to be aware of the issue. If you aren't familiar, emotional labor is kind of a hot catch phrase and there are articles and discussions out there. I tend to be good at the emotional labor thing and it has a history of getting me imposed upon to an unreasonable degree. People often expect me to deeply respect them and kiss their boo-boos and make them feel okay about everything. This often occurs while I am being treated very disrespectfully and can't get my needs met. If you are the CTO, why is peacemaking your job? That isn't usually one of the official duties of a CTO, is it? If that is the issue, you will need to learn to alter your behavior so people feel less free to impose in this manner. You will also need to think through just how much you need to be interceding in the relationships of employees. You can work on doing ice breaker exercises and team building exercises etc. But if the real problem is that you are being viewed as the team mom and people want you to fix everything and expect perfection, that may not fully resolve the issue.

voycey 9y ago

Question - are the non-technical employees requesting work done by the senior developer directly to him? Some developers are often just that - hard headed coders, if they haven't come from a role or a background that has required them to "Customer Facing" then you need to re-evaluate the reporting chain or if it is crucial that they be "customer facing" then you need to broach the subject with him that he needs to understand how to talk to them. As CTO of a small company you should head up the engineering team, if required you will need to act as the go between to get the requirements distilled into a format your senior dev can then action with the rest of the team. If you cant absorb this responsibility then you need to get a project manager of some sort in to manage it :)

scxyz42 9y ago
Thanks! We're so small that it used to be a direct request. Since, I've tried to be more of a buffer / create better processes - but you're right. I can probably try to do more.

EnderMB 9y ago

Out of interest, where does the chain of command lie? I've worked with people in the past that respect the chain o' command to such a degree that they will follow everything a more senior member of staff will say, but will both ignore and undermine what people on their level or below say. I've also noticed a trend where they will respect the "workers" of the office, but have little respect for Project Managers or anyone they don't perceive to be battling on the front lines. In the past, a good way to get around this was to ensure that everything that needed doing was in writing. This way, everyone knew what was expected of them, and it was much harder for someone to be confrontational or condescending if any of this was in writing.

scxyz42 9y ago
More explicit expectations makes sense. I'm his manager so others would have to use indirect influence to get his help outside of sprint work items.

danielovichdk 9y ago

Okay, I will try to elaborate on my earlier comment. Given the fact that it's a small company I will take it (from own experience), that the process or agility around on how you produce software is blurred and probably not totally in place. The missing "boundaries" for some developers can be stressful and if a process is missing that can lead to frustration. When I lead teams I also try to "cut of" or act as a buffer to the business side of the team, and have them focus and hold them accountable for what they are good at (and that's often sales, marketing, budgets etc.). And let me and the team do what we're good at. The communication around these things most be done a proper professional fashion. Down the line no company can function with a CEO that believes he/she has a say in how a developer should act outside his own temple. So many teams allow too much interference from the outside. They shouldn't be allowed. Focus on what you and you're team is good at and have the rest of the company focus on what they are good at.

scxyz42 9y ago
The missing "boundaries" and blurred processes definitely play a major role. When I led teams at a larger tech company, the thicker processes were part of the buffer/liaison. In contrast, the lack of/lean amount of processes here for the sake of agility makes this less of a white and black issue.

cimmanom 9y ago

Is the engineer aware of what it is about their communication style that's making others uncomfortable? Even the person most motivated to change won't improve if they don't know what constitutes "better" or "worse". There are different communication cultures even within a country or a region. For instance, engineering culture (in many communities or companies) accepts bluntness and directness in ways that the general culture often does not. Or people who grew up on the US coasts are often uncultured to more blunt, direct, fast-paced communication styles than those who grew up in the Midwest or South. Some families treat (friendly) confrontation and debate as a game, whereas others interpret it as conflict or rudeness or even power struggle. If you grow up communicating in one style, you may not be aware that other people use other styles. And even if you are, you may not be aware of how that causes them to interpret your own style. So don't just tell your engineer "change". Give him training in the communication style you expect him to use in the workplace. If you haven't already, I suggest you get some concrete examples from the employees who submitted the complaints. Then spend half an hour to an hour once a week role-playing similar conversations with your engineer. During these sessions, give clear feedback on what comes across as blunt or rude or condescending (and why), and suggest different phrasing or approaches that might be more diplomatic. Keep doing this until you no longer have to suggest significant changes.

akulbe 9y ago

It's going to kill morale if you keep that guy around. If they're talking to you that much about him, there's probably a lot more they're talking about that you never hear. Fit goes further than skill, in my opinion. If you want to keep your non-tech folks around, let that guy go, and hire for fit. You'd be doing yourself massive favors.

scxyz42 9y ago
Thanks!

beegeezuz 9y ago

Maybe you guys just don't know what you're doing? I mean asking complete strangers on the internet how to lead your team doesn't really strike confidence in me. Perhaps you should start with the titles. CEO is someone managing a corporation of thousands of people, not a 9-person start-up. Sorry for being crude and blunt.

barrystaes 9y ago

Good chance that all involved share the same common goal (startup success) and they should use that as a base to respect each other and colaborate. From your experience with him I guess this employee does not intend to be curt/cold/condescending to other people, but might appear "cold" discussing some technical subjects. Others might expect a "warm" conversation instead. Lets call this conversation VS discussion. There's a place for both. Sometimes even in the same meeting. But i tend to think when there is clarity beforehand, its best for both parties. Even warm feedback can land as a cold discussion if not handled with consideration.

dpeck 9y ago

Get rid of the problem employee, toxicity will extend and it will hamper communication and trust. If you’re having these problems with such a small group that should still be in the “all for one one for all” stage it’s going to continue and be much more painful to deal with down the line if you have success. Also if you’re starting to catch fire from your CEO (founder/cofounder) about it that’s a good indication that it’s already leading to those problems and is effecting your standing/trust with the rest of the company.

scxyz42 9y ago
Good point - thank you!

chad_strategic 9y ago

This if kinda of funny, because I was the used to be the jerk full-stack developer. My reasons where the following: 1. Job was to easy for me. 2. The non technical people where not very bright. (seriously they where just winging it.) 3. I didn't care. 4. Wasn't challenged. 5. Non technical people treated me as a code monkey, when I first got there. 6. I had the power. Even if the fired me, it would take them weeks to get back up and running. 7. As of right now, Developers have the power. Oddly, enough I am not a jerk, but I didn't like being taken advantage of in this particular situation.

mindhash 9y ago

In my experience, its best not to get involved in behavioral aspects of team being engineering lead. You need to get work done and such things change the context of your conversation. But if this is visibly affecting delivery quality or timeline then it makes sense to get involved. If it comes to that, I would defend my team member until proven guilty. Ask for specific scenarios and then if they seem serious then just pass a word to team member that there is heat around this issue. And he / she could have said this or handled this way. Sometimes people are what they are. It doesn't occur to them that they are offending others. You also can't expect them to change without patience n guidance. Keep sharing scenarios and what he could have done better. If this is behavioral problem then he would take time to come out of it.

afarrell 9y ago

> curt/cold/condescending This is a rather broad and not very actionable criticism. Can you get more specific feedback? For example, something of the form "In situation X, you did/said Y, and that led me to think Z" is more actionable. Also, it is useful to pay attention to the classification problems that your engineer faces. There is a sometimes a balance between being condescending by giving someone info they already know and not providing enough context for an explanation. The book "Thanks for the Feedback" [1] is a good read and Erika Carlson's talk[2] from Lead Developer UK is a good watch. [1] https://www.amazon.co.uk/Thanks-Feedback-Science-Receiving-Well/dp/1611762510 https://www.amazon.co.uk/Thanks-Feedback-Science-Receiving-W... [2] https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RsfNS9HSWQs https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RsfNS9HSWQs

shostack 9y ago

What are the roles of the four non-technical employees who have complained? You mentioned elsewhere that they are submitting requests directly to this engineer--what sorts of requests? When I've encountered and had to help solve for this sort of thing in the past, there was usually something deeper at the root of it. In one case it was the fact that people on the marketing team were not able to formulate their engineering asks to a sufficiently technical degree, or understand the ideal workflow of an engineer. So what would happen is engineers would get frustrated fielding these requests because they lacked most of the necessary information needed to build anything, and were constantly asked to support multiple significant scope changes throughout the process. That would understandably frustrate many people. But once we identified that as one of the big issues, we were able to develop process to help address it. Things like documenting commonly asked technical specifics up front, or setting milestones and making sure everyone understood the impact of changing things helped streamline things. Another big piece of that was having someone who could bridge that gap from a communication standpoint. That ended up being me for a lot of it, which was fun since while I am a marketer, I'm fairly technical and usually get on very well with engineers. If two people can't speak a common language, sometimes the easiest solution is to work through a third person who can translate.

scxyz42 9y ago
Customer support and marketing. Requests were more fluid but have since been formalized, e.g. different bug templates to help clear out some of the back and forth. Thanks for this - sounds like we're trying to do some things right.
- shostack 9y ago
  Yep, I'm guessing there may be similar issues. Hard to say without more context or hearing examples of some of the offending remarks. For example, if an engineer is explaining something technical in a condescending manner to someone non-technical who may struggle to grasp it, that's on the engineer and their communication skills. However if they are being curt and coming across cold and frustrated because they keep asking for the same things every time and don't get them, that's a process issue and an easily solved one at that. Sounds like you may benefit from digging deeper into people's issues on this to identify how much is really communication style and skills vs. symptoms of process issues.

ecesena 9y ago

Honestly, I think you should fire him, or the other 4 employees. At your stage, you can't be distracted by this kind of issues. You should also review your hiring process and see how you can avoid this in the future, I can guess that you interviewed the technical people, and your CEO the non-technical ones, and you (together) didn't catch this as a potential issue.

soneca 9y ago

"although the designer and I get along with him just fine" It is very common that arrogant developers are condescending to non-tech people and not to tech people, considering themselves a special breed of human beings. "I've drawn a pretty hard line in defending him thus far" Why? Do you have evidence that the SDE is right? 4 different complains on a 9 employees company seems to indicate that's not the case.

scxyz42 9y ago
The minimal 'evidence' collected so far, I feel like can be interpreted as miscommunication or a difference in style. I will try to gather more. I agree though, 4/9 is concerning. Thanks!