5 ms·

In the grand scheme of things every one dies and the universes freezes from entropic heat death, so yeah... That said Nihilism isn't necessarily pessimistic. T

In the grand scheme of things every one dies and the universes freezes from entropic heat death, so yeah... That said Nihilism isn't necessarily pessimistic. The French Existentialist were basically weak nihilism and Camus was almost celebratory of the lack of meaning of life. "Nothing Means Anything" can be taken as "fuck it burn it all down" OR it can be taken as "there are no unforgivable sins, there is no eternal reward for martyrdom, so why not maximize our fleeting existence for 'happiness'?"

samirillian 9y ago
But you just did that exact same thing! a) Do we know for sure that's what happens to the universe? and b) It doesn't matter anyway. "Everybody dies" is only a fact. What does the fact of heat death have to do with the question of meaning? The implication that "nothing means anything" is just as metaphysical an assumption as "everything means something."
- Avshalom 9y ago
  a) math, even if not entropic heat death, a basic grasp of history show that 99.999...% of our lives are meaningless after some cut off. b)I am specifically claiming that while "nothing means anything" is the--lie that tells the truth--summation of nihilism it, by it's very nature, doesn't imply a course of action. So it doesn't matter how metaphysical of a claim it is.
  - stcredzero 9y ago
    a basic grasp of history show that 99.999...% of our lives are meaningless after some cut off Why shouldn't we be grateful to the totality of our ancestors for getting us this far? Who is to say that we could change even a butterfly wing's flutter of the distant past and still have everything turn out as now? b)I am specifically claiming that while "nothing means anything" is the--lie that tells the truth--summation of nihilism it, by it's very nature, doesn't imply a course of action. So it doesn't matter how metaphysical of a claim it is. You know nothing, Jon Snow!
    - Avshalom 9y ago
      why shouldn't we resent the totality of our ancestors?
      - stcredzero 9y ago
        Because it's a dismal way to live.
  - samirillian 9y ago
    a) If "everything means something" is at least equal in truth-value to "nothing means anything," it's simply not a matter of percentages. b) If I understand you correctly, I think you're sneaking the assumption of nihilism back into your argument. The "lie that tells the truth" could also very well describe "everything means something," since I undeniably experience meaningfulness as something and not as nothing, despite all scientific facts. Just as I experience you as another soul though I know you are "just" matter. And this undeniable experience of meaning would undeniably imply a course of action. Non-harm (not treating a soul like an object) most immediately coming to mind.
stcredzero 9y ago
In the grand scheme of things every one dies and the universes freezes from entropic heat death, so yeah... {facepalm} We don't know what Dark Matter and Dark Energy are. We have no idea what happens if/when the expansion of space itself starts pulling quarks apart. https://www.quora.com/What-happens-when-you-pull-apart-a-pair-of-two-quarks https://www.quora.com/What-happens-when-you-pull-apart-a-pai... You only think you know what's going to happen, based on the limited toy understanding of the vast universe which can fit into your present day little ape brain.
- Avshalom 9y ago
  The entropic heat death of the universe comes more from the notion that R=1 is implied by the conservation of energy and so while the universe might stop expanding at t=∞ the average energy of any particle at that time will be 0. if R>1 same thing but faster. The other option is that we all die and then the universe collapses... which is just as final for anything hanging around as heat death would be.
  - stcredzero 9y ago
    The entropic heat death of the universe comes more from the notion that R=1 is implied by the conservation of energy {facepalm} Physicists already know that on the scales of the universe, there is no conservation of energy. I hate to break it to you folks, but most of you are dead wrong about conservation laws. Conservation laws are a fundamental part of your education, but they are not a fundamental part of the universe. They are dependent on symmetry, as German mathematician Emmy Noether figured out. What this means is that energy is not conserved on universal scales, though it is still a very powerful analysis tool on smaller scales. We already have good reasons to believe that there is no time symmetry in deep time. The part relevant to the above specifically is at 10:15, but the whole video is worth watching. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PUn2izowBkw https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PUn2izowBkw We know that the universe is expanding, and that this expansion is accelerating. So, do you know what happens when the expansion of space itself starts pulling quarks apart? Can you describe the physics? Do we even know that is going to happen? Also: Physics Girl -- On universal scales, energy is not conserved! https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GHCc9b2phn0 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GHCc9b2phn0
stcredzero 9y ago
In the grand scheme of things every one dies and the universes freezes from entropic heat death, so yeah... In the grand scheme of things, perhaps the dark energy driven expansion of space-time continues to accelerate until quarks get pulled apart, which increases their potential energy, creating more quarks to get pulled apart in an exponential cascade, simultaneously throughout the entire universe. What the hell happens after that?

samirillian 9y ago

But you just did that exact same thing! a) Do we know for sure that's what happens to the universe? and b) It doesn't matter anyway. "Everybody dies" is only a fact. What does the fact of heat death have to do with the question of meaning? The implication that "nothing means anything" is just as metaphysical an assumption as "everything means something."

Avshalom 9y ago
a) math, even if not entropic heat death, a basic grasp of history show that 99.999...% of our lives are meaningless after some cut off. b)I am specifically claiming that while "nothing means anything" is the--lie that tells the truth--summation of nihilism it, by it's very nature, doesn't imply a course of action. So it doesn't matter how metaphysical of a claim it is.
- stcredzero 9y ago
  a basic grasp of history show that 99.999...% of our lives are meaningless after some cut off Why shouldn't we be grateful to the totality of our ancestors for getting us this far? Who is to say that we could change even a butterfly wing's flutter of the distant past and still have everything turn out as now? b)I am specifically claiming that while "nothing means anything" is the--lie that tells the truth--summation of nihilism it, by it's very nature, doesn't imply a course of action. So it doesn't matter how metaphysical of a claim it is. You know nothing, Jon Snow!
  - Avshalom 9y ago
    why shouldn't we resent the totality of our ancestors?
    - stcredzero 9y ago
      Because it's a dismal way to live.
- samirillian 9y ago
  a) If "everything means something" is at least equal in truth-value to "nothing means anything," it's simply not a matter of percentages. b) If I understand you correctly, I think you're sneaking the assumption of nihilism back into your argument. The "lie that tells the truth" could also very well describe "everything means something," since I undeniably experience meaningfulness as something and not as nothing, despite all scientific facts. Just as I experience you as another soul though I know you are "just" matter. And this undeniable experience of meaning would undeniably imply a course of action. Non-harm (not treating a soul like an object) most immediately coming to mind.

stcredzero 9y ago

In the grand scheme of things every one dies and the universes freezes from entropic heat death, so yeah... {facepalm} We don't know what Dark Matter and Dark Energy are. We have no idea what happens if/when the expansion of space itself starts pulling quarks apart. https://www.quora.com/What-happens-when-you-pull-apart-a-pair-of-two-quarks https://www.quora.com/What-happens-when-you-pull-apart-a-pai... You only think you know what's going to happen, based on the limited toy understanding of the vast universe which can fit into your present day little ape brain.

Avshalom 9y ago
The entropic heat death of the universe comes more from the notion that R=1 is implied by the conservation of energy and so while the universe might stop expanding at t=∞ the average energy of any particle at that time will be 0. if R>1 same thing but faster. The other option is that we all die and then the universe collapses... which is just as final for anything hanging around as heat death would be.
- stcredzero 9y ago
  The entropic heat death of the universe comes more from the notion that R=1 is implied by the conservation of energy {facepalm} Physicists already know that on the scales of the universe, there is no conservation of energy. I hate to break it to you folks, but most of you are dead wrong about conservation laws. Conservation laws are a fundamental part of your education, but they are not a fundamental part of the universe. They are dependent on symmetry, as German mathematician Emmy Noether figured out. What this means is that energy is not conserved on universal scales, though it is still a very powerful analysis tool on smaller scales. We already have good reasons to believe that there is no time symmetry in deep time. The part relevant to the above specifically is at 10:15, but the whole video is worth watching. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PUn2izowBkw https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PUn2izowBkw We know that the universe is expanding, and that this expansion is accelerating. So, do you know what happens when the expansion of space itself starts pulling quarks apart? Can you describe the physics? Do we even know that is going to happen? Also: Physics Girl -- On universal scales, energy is not conserved! https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GHCc9b2phn0 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GHCc9b2phn0

stcredzero 9y ago

In the grand scheme of things every one dies and the universes freezes from entropic heat death, so yeah... In the grand scheme of things, perhaps the dark energy driven expansion of space-time continues to accelerate until quarks get pulled apart, which increases their potential energy, creating more quarks to get pulled apart in an exponential cascade, simultaneously throughout the entire universe. What the hell happens after that?