3 ms·

And it is ok, that you skip it, the difference on pay gap is men having far worse life for those few extra bucks. It is not everything about the money and your

by _o_ 9y ago

And it is ok, that you skip it, the difference on pay gap is men having far worse life for those few extra bucks. It is not everything about the money and your path is correct. We (men) are doing it wrong and we are the idiots. The extra money is just not worth it, but we are pushed into craving for social status (which in most cases equals to income, car, house,...) due to the fact that potential mates (females) are searching for such mans (statistically womans are marrying to mens with ~30% higher income than they have) . And idiotically as it sounds, the "equality" will just make both genders work harder, spending life at workplace. Working for "8%" less money than you will get for your peak capabilities and you will have far better life. It is just not worth it. Money is NOT everything.

ada1981 9y ago
Interesting theory. So you think if women make more, than men will try to increase the wealth inequality in other ways? I'm curious about that. Alternately, they could also just learn how to validate and be with women's emotions (and their own).
- klipt 9y ago
  Or the pool of dateable men shrinks as women earn more (for those who insist on dating men who earn more than them). Eventually such women can earn too much to have a good chance of finding a man whose salary satisfies them. The same happens with college degrees. More women than men go to college. But many women with college degrees want a man with a college degree too. Cue articles complaining about the shortage of marriageable men.
- mitchty 9y ago
  > Alternately, they could also just learn how to validate and be with women's emotions (and their own). That would mean unlearning every single thing society tells us not to do. I would ask you listen to this: https://www.npr.org/2018/03/19/594719471/guys-we-have-a-problem-how-american-masculinity-creates-lonely-men https://www.npr.org/2018/03/19/594719471/guys-we-have-a-prob... Humans are emotional creatures, modern men get that beaten out of them. If you're female I'd ask that you talk to some of the men you know and ask them if they've been emotional around women in the past and how that went. This is a societal problem and if we keep treating men as both the problem and the source of their own problem, its never going to change. As it stands I highly doubt anything will change in America in my generation or the next two at the very least. Until it becomes a problem that can't be ignored this will continue to be ignored.
  - knightofmars 9y ago
    Thank you for posting this. I have attempted to explain this very issue in the past. Women's verbal and non-verbal responses to men are extremely formative in how men learn to behave.
  - ada1981 9y ago
    I studied PUA for a decade, coached it (and even saved the marriage of one of the all time most famous "gurus"). I was a master of shutting down my emotions, acting like a guy with avoidant attachment in order to trigger a womans anxious attachment. I slept with tons of women and also couldn't sustain a "relationship" once any sort of actual intimacy was demanded of me. Finally, after being at the brink of suicide, I realized that my emotions were deeply valuable things and that I needed to develop a relationship with them -- all of them, and stop trying to run from sadness or rage or jealousy or rejection. Once that internal process reached a critical mass, I then began the work of retraining my nervous system to be oriented towards people who were more secure and able to be with others honest expression of emotion. This meant telling the truth and often feeling like shit when people did, in fact, reject me. I regained my ability to feel, however, along with my ability to be with others feelings. Now, I'm engaged to an incredible woman and have a coaching practice full of all sorts of folks seeking guidance on how to have real relationships. Some of my clients read HN, others run the companies you work for, star in the movies you stream or build the products you use. It's hard work, but highly recommended and required if we are going to emerge into a new paradigm of human relating. Gratuitous engagement video shot with drones on a remote tropical island that we are planning to turn into a village for visionaries like all of you here ;) >> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gEiW-Jee2eI https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gEiW-Jee2eI
- belorn 9y ago
  You mean women could stop evaluating men based on money? Wealth for men is the single highest factor when predicting response rate for male profiles in dating sites (according to the data I have read). Wealth and earning rates of married men correlated to the rate in which their spouse will file for divorce. Men and wealth has a similar relation as women and appearance. Men as a single group has as much ability to stop being evaluated for their wealth as women as a single group can stop being evaluated on appearance. In theory women could stop compete on appearance between other women, but its dubious if that would actually change male behavior. Similarly, men could stop compete for wealth but its questionable if that would cause any cultural change for women.
  - erkkie 9y ago
    And it's unknown which factors here are cultural and which are biological. Society is trying to treat this as only a cultural thing but we're still highly evolved cellular automatons.
- _o_ 9y ago
  It is not about men "trying" to do it. They (at least most) don't want it. Who wants to work more if they have enough for their needs? But their needs are also having a partner and the partner wants a man who is "alpha" (which, in today ads powered world means rich). So he needs to do as much as possible to get better mate. Does he have a chance? I would maybe even go further, 3rd and 4th wave of feminism are bs. I agree with first two waves as woman position was unfair, but it is curious to me, why 3rd and 4th wave are tolerated by society that is (feminism claims) patriarchic, why don't those king pin mans just shoot them down? My explanation would be, that it is good for bussiness. Woman work more, and men also. And for less money, with doubling the work force. It is perfect for earning more money and catastrophic for society.

by _o_ 9y ago

ada1981 9y ago

Interesting theory. So you think if women make more, than men will try to increase the wealth inequality in other ways? I'm curious about that. Alternately, they could also just learn how to validate and be with women's emotions (and their own).

klipt 9y ago
Or the pool of dateable men shrinks as women earn more (for those who insist on dating men who earn more than them). Eventually such women can earn too much to have a good chance of finding a man whose salary satisfies them. The same happens with college degrees. More women than men go to college. But many women with college degrees want a man with a college degree too. Cue articles complaining about the shortage of marriageable men.
mitchty 9y ago
> Alternately, they could also just learn how to validate and be with women's emotions (and their own). That would mean unlearning every single thing society tells us not to do. I would ask you listen to this: https://www.npr.org/2018/03/19/594719471/guys-we-have-a-problem-how-american-masculinity-creates-lonely-men https://www.npr.org/2018/03/19/594719471/guys-we-have-a-prob... Humans are emotional creatures, modern men get that beaten out of them. If you're female I'd ask that you talk to some of the men you know and ask them if they've been emotional around women in the past and how that went. This is a societal problem and if we keep treating men as both the problem and the source of their own problem, its never going to change. As it stands I highly doubt anything will change in America in my generation or the next two at the very least. Until it becomes a problem that can't be ignored this will continue to be ignored.
- knightofmars 9y ago
  Thank you for posting this. I have attempted to explain this very issue in the past. Women's verbal and non-verbal responses to men are extremely formative in how men learn to behave.
- ada1981 9y ago
  I studied PUA for a decade, coached it (and even saved the marriage of one of the all time most famous "gurus"). I was a master of shutting down my emotions, acting like a guy with avoidant attachment in order to trigger a womans anxious attachment. I slept with tons of women and also couldn't sustain a "relationship" once any sort of actual intimacy was demanded of me. Finally, after being at the brink of suicide, I realized that my emotions were deeply valuable things and that I needed to develop a relationship with them -- all of them, and stop trying to run from sadness or rage or jealousy or rejection. Once that internal process reached a critical mass, I then began the work of retraining my nervous system to be oriented towards people who were more secure and able to be with others honest expression of emotion. This meant telling the truth and often feeling like shit when people did, in fact, reject me. I regained my ability to feel, however, along with my ability to be with others feelings. Now, I'm engaged to an incredible woman and have a coaching practice full of all sorts of folks seeking guidance on how to have real relationships. Some of my clients read HN, others run the companies you work for, star in the movies you stream or build the products you use. It's hard work, but highly recommended and required if we are going to emerge into a new paradigm of human relating. Gratuitous engagement video shot with drones on a remote tropical island that we are planning to turn into a village for visionaries like all of you here ;) >> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gEiW-Jee2eI https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gEiW-Jee2eI
belorn 9y ago
You mean women could stop evaluating men based on money? Wealth for men is the single highest factor when predicting response rate for male profiles in dating sites (according to the data I have read). Wealth and earning rates of married men correlated to the rate in which their spouse will file for divorce. Men and wealth has a similar relation as women and appearance. Men as a single group has as much ability to stop being evaluated for their wealth as women as a single group can stop being evaluated on appearance. In theory women could stop compete on appearance between other women, but its dubious if that would actually change male behavior. Similarly, men could stop compete for wealth but its questionable if that would cause any cultural change for women.
- erkkie 9y ago
  And it's unknown which factors here are cultural and which are biological. Society is trying to treat this as only a cultural thing but we're still highly evolved cellular automatons.
_o_ 9y ago
It is not about men "trying" to do it. They (at least most) don't want it. Who wants to work more if they have enough for their needs? But their needs are also having a partner and the partner wants a man who is "alpha" (which, in today ads powered world means rich). So he needs to do as much as possible to get better mate. Does he have a chance? I would maybe even go further, 3rd and 4th wave of feminism are bs. I agree with first two waves as woman position was unfair, but it is curious to me, why 3rd and 4th wave are tolerated by society that is (feminism claims) patriarchic, why don't those king pin mans just shoot them down? My explanation would be, that it is good for bussiness. Woman work more, and men also. And for less money, with doubling the work force. It is perfect for earning more money and catastrophic for society.