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I am getting more and more respect for Craigslist who resisted doing constant redesigns for the sake of looking hip. Craigslist is ugly but I don't have to rele

I am getting more and more respect for Craigslist who resisted doing constant redesigns for the sake of looking hip. Craigslist is ugly but I don't have to relearn something every few months because they have moved some function to another place. It seems most sites like Reddit have run out of ideas and instead of leaving things alone they just shuffle things around and sell it as innovation. Same thing for Windows 10 and office 365. Lots of visual changes but under the hood it's same old.

w0m 9y ago
Two very different user bases though. Craigslist is more of a, 'Go there to accomplish specific task' end point. Reddit is more of a, 'hang out here when your bored!' type of thing. The former just has to work and work cleanly. The latter needs to hold it's users interest over time while staying 'hip' enough to gain users from potential competitors to stay relevant overtime.
- Jtsummers 9y ago
  Fark, like Reddit, is a place people go to to "hang out", and its design doesn't seem to have substantially changed over the years.
  - tyleraldrich 9y ago
    Reddit is also the 6th most popular website in the world, and likely gets thousands of potential new users daily that are turned off by the design and don't become Reddit addicts.
    - TremendousJudge 9y ago
      This puts them just below Google, Youtube, Facebook, Baidu and Wikipedia[1]. That's absolutely huge. If the interface was so bad surely they wouldn't have been able to get there now, would they? [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_most_popular_websites https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_most_popular_websites
      - what_ever 9y ago
        How would you know if it's not holding them back?
  - sli 9y ago
    So, bear with me on this, because I'm certain a lot of us have tech-illiterate parents and will understand what I'm getting at here. I'm not sure Fark is the best example, given that their demographic seems to be middle-aged folks (or at least older than the Millennial age range). You can't really (or simply shouldn't) do sweeping design changes if your demographic is aging. Every time I wander over to that site, it becomes very clear that a lot of the users are at least a decade older than me (likely in their 40s and 50s). If it were a tech site, that's one thing, but Fark is more of a site for just anyone. Targeting that wider demo is going to attract less tech-minded and likely less-adaptable users compared to, say, a similar site where the userbase throws around a lot of lingo. reddit on the other hand can more or less assume that the users that stick around will figure out the new site. They're probably right, or at least not horribly wrong, and are instead banking on retaining just a majority of users, not all of them.
- tomtheelder 9y ago
  Sort of posted this elsewhere, but I think Craigslist is suffering from this as well. It seems to be losing market share from what I can tell. I showed up on their site for the first time about a year ago to buy and sell furniture, and was so turned off by it. Ended up using a different platform. Visual appeal is extremely powerful, and it's valuable to virtually any product.
  - volkl48 9y ago
    If it is suffering from anything, I'd suggest Craigslist is suffering more from the number of scam/spam/low-effort posts ("Honda for sale." No model, mileage, photos, etc in the post) that you have to sort through or the tricks you have to use to avoid them. ex: When searching for an apartment, I always have to put a price floor in place because everything more than ~25% below market is pure spam and there's a ton of it. It wouldn't occur to the average person that they could filter a bunch of spam out by putting a lower limit on the price of the thing they're looking for, for example. So they get an even worse experience than me, and it's pretty painful to sort through even with various tricks like that in the filtering.
  - sli 9y ago
    I went there recently for the first time in a while and was denied entry because I was using a VPN. Oh well.
tootie 9y ago
It really depends on your position and level of user engagement. Users of Reddit and Craigslist know very well what they want and what to expect. They can navigate a wall of text really quickly because they've looked at it for countless hours. Strong design can be really critical to onboarding new users or leading down a path. Neither of which are priorities for Reddit or Craigslist.
- ddingus 9y ago
  It's the leading down a path that is the problem. Onboarding for old-school Reddit and Craigslist isn't hard. You click on a few things. You're done. Once the idea of leading people down a path happens, then you've got a curated directed experience that conflicts with why you came there in the first place. That's what people have a problem with. The whole thing is presumptuous, as if they know better than you why you're there. They don't. Let's be honest about that.
  - tootie 9y ago
    I mean like a workflow or a sales funnel for less engaged users. Not in a nefarious way.
    - ddingus 9y ago
      It's still presumptuous. Reddit doesn't need a sales funnel. It's owner Conde Nast does that's one problem. The users have a very different set of expectations set long before the new owner walked in. Prior to the big sale, which raised a lot of expectations, which may not actually be met very well at all given how users actually use Reddit,the site was self-sustaining based on gold and intra Reddit ads. The idea of billions of page views, based on largely organic online discussion, equaling massive dollars, isn't one proven valid. That's a problem too. The reason it's a problem, is curating a very compelling discussion site for advertisers runs in conflict with what makes for a very compelling discussion site.
giarc 9y ago
This is the first major redesign in 10 years, I'd say they aren't doing it just to look hip. Additionally from the few screenshots I have seen, it doesn't look like even the most casual of users will have to re-learn everything. I agree with your argument that redesigns should have a purpose, but I disagree that the argument can be applied here.
- taurath 9y ago
  They weren't doing it for 10 years because they were terrified of becoming digg and giving users a major gripe. They're already inserting a lot more ads into the feeds, so they're on pretty shaky ground.
  - Retroity 9y ago
    Last I checked reddit's reasoning for the redesign was that their current codebase was difficult to work with due to "the lack of separation of the frontend and backend code"
tomtheelder 9y ago
I recently wanted to buy and sell some furniture and checked out craigslist. Was hugely put off by what was, for me, totally counter-intuitive UX and ugly design. Poked around for a bit, ended up using a different service and was very happy. From what I understand, Craigslist has been losing popularity recently, and I have no doubt that the 90s feel of the site is a big contributor. Existing users of sites may be temporarily irked by a redesign, but they can be huge for keeping the site attractive to new users. They should happen infrequently, but they have a purpose. IMO Craigslist has made a huge mistake by leaving the site unchanged for so long. I know for a fact that Reddit suffers from this as well. They have mentioned it in lots of places, and I'm confident that's backed up by their user studies. Visual appeal has a huge effect on new users, and I'm sure that's why Reddit is doing what they are doing.
- nugi 9y ago
  Is this scarcasm? I honestly cannot tell.
optimuspaul 9y ago
reddit is a UX nightmare though, they could use a redesign. The primary reason I don't regularly use reddit is because it is so unintuitive and defies so many conventions in terms of human interface that I became overly anxious just looking at it.
- alanbernstein 9y ago
  Reddit is the perfect UX for me. Disagree if you like, but that's a big part of the reason I use the site.

w0m 9y ago

Two very different user bases though. Craigslist is more of a, 'Go there to accomplish specific task' end point. Reddit is more of a, 'hang out here when your bored!' type of thing. The former just has to work and work cleanly. The latter needs to hold it's users interest over time while staying 'hip' enough to gain users from potential competitors to stay relevant overtime.

Jtsummers 9y ago
Fark, like Reddit, is a place people go to to "hang out", and its design doesn't seem to have substantially changed over the years.
- tyleraldrich 9y ago
  Reddit is also the 6th most popular website in the world, and likely gets thousands of potential new users daily that are turned off by the design and don't become Reddit addicts.
  - TremendousJudge 9y ago
    This puts them just below Google, Youtube, Facebook, Baidu and Wikipedia[1]. That's absolutely huge. If the interface was so bad surely they wouldn't have been able to get there now, would they? [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_most_popular_websites https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_most_popular_websites
    - what_ever 9y ago
      How would you know if it's not holding them back?
- sli 9y ago
  So, bear with me on this, because I'm certain a lot of us have tech-illiterate parents and will understand what I'm getting at here. I'm not sure Fark is the best example, given that their demographic seems to be middle-aged folks (or at least older than the Millennial age range). You can't really (or simply shouldn't) do sweeping design changes if your demographic is aging. Every time I wander over to that site, it becomes very clear that a lot of the users are at least a decade older than me (likely in their 40s and 50s). If it were a tech site, that's one thing, but Fark is more of a site for just anyone. Targeting that wider demo is going to attract less tech-minded and likely less-adaptable users compared to, say, a similar site where the userbase throws around a lot of lingo. reddit on the other hand can more or less assume that the users that stick around will figure out the new site. They're probably right, or at least not horribly wrong, and are instead banking on retaining just a majority of users, not all of them.
tomtheelder 9y ago
Sort of posted this elsewhere, but I think Craigslist is suffering from this as well. It seems to be losing market share from what I can tell. I showed up on their site for the first time about a year ago to buy and sell furniture, and was so turned off by it. Ended up using a different platform. Visual appeal is extremely powerful, and it's valuable to virtually any product.
- volkl48 9y ago
  If it is suffering from anything, I'd suggest Craigslist is suffering more from the number of scam/spam/low-effort posts ("Honda for sale." No model, mileage, photos, etc in the post) that you have to sort through or the tricks you have to use to avoid them. ex: When searching for an apartment, I always have to put a price floor in place because everything more than ~25% below market is pure spam and there's a ton of it. It wouldn't occur to the average person that they could filter a bunch of spam out by putting a lower limit on the price of the thing they're looking for, for example. So they get an even worse experience than me, and it's pretty painful to sort through even with various tricks like that in the filtering.
- sli 9y ago
  I went there recently for the first time in a while and was denied entry because I was using a VPN. Oh well.

tootie 9y ago

It really depends on your position and level of user engagement. Users of Reddit and Craigslist know very well what they want and what to expect. They can navigate a wall of text really quickly because they've looked at it for countless hours. Strong design can be really critical to onboarding new users or leading down a path. Neither of which are priorities for Reddit or Craigslist.

ddingus 9y ago
It's the leading down a path that is the problem. Onboarding for old-school Reddit and Craigslist isn't hard. You click on a few things. You're done. Once the idea of leading people down a path happens, then you've got a curated directed experience that conflicts with why you came there in the first place. That's what people have a problem with. The whole thing is presumptuous, as if they know better than you why you're there. They don't. Let's be honest about that.
- tootie 9y ago
  I mean like a workflow or a sales funnel for less engaged users. Not in a nefarious way.
  - ddingus 9y ago
    It's still presumptuous. Reddit doesn't need a sales funnel. It's owner Conde Nast does that's one problem. The users have a very different set of expectations set long before the new owner walked in. Prior to the big sale, which raised a lot of expectations, which may not actually be met very well at all given how users actually use Reddit,the site was self-sustaining based on gold and intra Reddit ads. The idea of billions of page views, based on largely organic online discussion, equaling massive dollars, isn't one proven valid. That's a problem too. The reason it's a problem, is curating a very compelling discussion site for advertisers runs in conflict with what makes for a very compelling discussion site.

giarc 9y ago

This is the first major redesign in 10 years, I'd say they aren't doing it just to look hip. Additionally from the few screenshots I have seen, it doesn't look like even the most casual of users will have to re-learn everything. I agree with your argument that redesigns should have a purpose, but I disagree that the argument can be applied here.

taurath 9y ago
They weren't doing it for 10 years because they were terrified of becoming digg and giving users a major gripe. They're already inserting a lot more ads into the feeds, so they're on pretty shaky ground.
- Retroity 9y ago
  Last I checked reddit's reasoning for the redesign was that their current codebase was difficult to work with due to "the lack of separation of the frontend and backend code"

tomtheelder 9y ago

I recently wanted to buy and sell some furniture and checked out craigslist. Was hugely put off by what was, for me, totally counter-intuitive UX and ugly design. Poked around for a bit, ended up using a different service and was very happy. From what I understand, Craigslist has been losing popularity recently, and I have no doubt that the 90s feel of the site is a big contributor. Existing users of sites may be temporarily irked by a redesign, but they can be huge for keeping the site attractive to new users. They should happen infrequently, but they have a purpose. IMO Craigslist has made a huge mistake by leaving the site unchanged for so long. I know for a fact that Reddit suffers from this as well. They have mentioned it in lots of places, and I'm confident that's backed up by their user studies. Visual appeal has a huge effect on new users, and I'm sure that's why Reddit is doing what they are doing.

nugi 9y ago
Is this scarcasm? I honestly cannot tell.

optimuspaul 9y ago

reddit is a UX nightmare though, they could use a redesign. The primary reason I don't regularly use reddit is because it is so unintuitive and defies so many conventions in terms of human interface that I became overly anxious just looking at it.

alanbernstein 9y ago
Reddit is the perfect UX for me. Disagree if you like, but that's a big part of the reason I use the site.