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This is so 100% not what I want. I want Unreal Engine, running full time. When I go into a World, it starts downloading the neighboring worlds. When I touch

This is so 100% not what I want. I want Unreal Engine, running full time. When I go into a World, it starts downloading the neighboring worlds. When I touch a Portkey or walk through a Portal or answer a ringing phone in a phonebooth, I'm now in the next world. That's what a "VR browser" is, to me. A loadable Unreal Engine level is the new "HTTP / CSS / JS." And in those levels, there need to be "Hyperlinks" that let me navigate to a new level. Give me some kind of Back button, and some way to enter a new "URL." URLs probably need # anchors with 6-degree-of-freedom starting positions embedded in them. Some worlds are single-user instances, some are multi-user (party rooms with your friends), some are like MMOs. All of our current VR technology feels like the equivalent of downloading a PostScript file over FTP. The Web kicked ass, because it had embedded Images, and Hyperlinks - you never left it, and it felt beautifully immersive. I want to never leave VR, and for it to be beautifully immersive. What's "Reddit" look like? It's a museum. There are images hanging on the wall. Under them is a cute plaque with the Title, and an Up and Down button, and a Comments. You can record a VR video comment. You can record an Audio comment. You can type a comment. You can be in a live VR / or maybe Video / or maybe Audio / or maybe IRC chat room, discussing that image. The items in the museum are sorted by Popular / Best / Hot / New / Controversial, and you can change it. There are also VR Objects that we're voting on. (Websites like this exist, but they aren't IN VR.) There are Videos. There are Portals to Worlds that you can hop into, and then hop back out. I also don't just want a "VR Browser," I want a "VR OS." The same way different Window Managers were all the rage on X, I want there to be lively debate about the best Application Managers in VR. Do they act like a HUD? How does Copy and Paste work? Is there Object Linking and Embedding? How do you get interrupted by Facebook Messenger? What is it like to have two VR apps at the same time? INNOVATE, PEOPLE. We don't know the answers to these questions, but they are for sure OPERATING SYSTEM questions. We keep screwing around within each game. But that's like putting a floppy in your PC and BOOTING FROM THAT DISK (no OS). DOS and later Windows were COMPLETELY DIFFERENT from how we used to boot, and required lots of changes in behavior. We need that, for VR, now.

fenwick67 9y ago
Sounds like you want VRChat.
- VikingCoder 9y ago
  Maybe. Does it let me host my own worlds, like running my own web-server, or am I locked in to them hosting? Also, is their file format open source, and is the client open source?
  - fenwick67 9y ago
    Sorry for late reply... their authoring tools use Unity, not sure about hosting. It's not open source, but it is free (not sure how they plan on making money). Basically you can create a "world" or a character model and use it or publish it freely, and in-game you can visit other people's worlds.
empath75 9y ago
There's been stuff like this going back to the 90s, and nobody actually wants this after they've tried it. You just don't have a lot of density of information, compared to what you can get from text on a screen or even video. In addition, it's hard to use any current VR headset for more than an hour or so because of eye strain.
- VikingCoder 9y ago
  I think the top flaws with those things (I authored a ton of VRML back in the day) were: 1) VR didn't actually exist yet. 2) Unreal Engine is beautiful, and didn't exist yet. 3) Bandwidth sucked (and still sucks a lot for many people). I think you're completely wrong that "nobody wants this after they've tried it." I'm essentially describing Steam VR, and Oculus Home... except I also want hyperlinking between the experiences, and I want the App to download and install much more like how a Browser works than how Steam and Oculus Home works... Which would be aided a lot if we just used one damn engine (Unreal Engine) for everything, rather than having to install the full engine for every World. Eye strain: I'm very hopeful that Magic Leap or other Light Field Displays will help. Also, okay, so, VR is amazing for an hour. =)
  - domevent 9y ago
    Sorry to say that MAgic Leap’s only relation to light fields is in their marketing and now defunct patents. Their actual product apppears to be a less impressive early Hololens.
T-A 9y ago
Have you tried https://highfidelity.com/ https://highfidelity.com/ ?
- VikingCoder 9y ago
  Ugh, no. It has "Marketplace" all over it. That's fine to add to what I'm talking about, I guess... I mean, Unreal Engine already does have a Marketplace, right? But the core idea needs to be much more like the web. Open source client, standards for content, standards for hyperlinking, open source server.
  - T-A 9y ago
    > Open source client, standards for content, standards for hyperlinking, open source server High Fidelity has all that: https://github.com/highfidelity https://github.com/highfidelity The web page emphasizes Marketplace because they recently started trying to get that going too (with a blockchain-based virtual currency which they've been handing out to anyone interested).
    - VikingCoder 9y ago
      K, I'll have to look more, later. Thanks!
kalkut 9y ago
Funny you basically described what I am currently building except it is being developed with WebVR. Reddit, multi users spaces, spaces browsing/creation/sharing etc you are spot on describing what I am doing. I will release an MVP in July so I guess I should start ramping up my online presence to sell the idea !
- VikingCoder 9y ago
  I worry for you about a lot of things: * WebVR brings along all of the baggage of the web browser. * It's incredibly hard to get beautiful content - that's why Unity and Unreal are so popular, they made it as easy as possible Best of luck. And you should have a newsletter I can sign up for.
  - kalkut 9y ago
    You are right about both points, but : * The best way to make VR and 3D browsing a thing is to have URLs to 3D/VR spaces because urls can be easily shared and most devices have Browsers. * It is hard to do something beautiful with WebVR but keeping things simple and allowing 3D models can go a long way. I think that currently running smoothly on a mid-end smartphone is more important than photorealism. * Game engines are too elitist. Common people have to be able to create 3D spaces very easily, with no code, no 3D modeling knowledge. Then they have to be able to share (deploy) with a single click. The web is the absolute platform for this. Thank you for your message, you are absolutely right about the newsletter !
    - VikingCoder 9y ago
      * I know that URLs are awesome... But URLs don't need to be HTTP. The Browser can launch this "VR Browser" thing I want. On desktop, or as you say on Android mobile it could do it with what are they called, Intents URLs? * I think you're under-estimating how important Beautiful is. You know and I know that graphics and gameplay are completely orthogonal, but WWW beat out Gopher partly because WWW was more beautiful (HTML had better layout, and had Images.) And you and I are on completely different pages if you're talking about smartphones, unless you mean like Gear VR or maybe Daydream, or the new Oculus thing... * Web browsers were too elitist. Lynx browser existed for some of them. But then people got bigger machines, faster internet connections. (Heck GLSL was too much for even state-of-the-art gaming machines, now IT runs in the Browser as WebGL!!!) I'd rather reach for the high end knowing that it becomes available. * Authoring: No question, it sucks. That's why things like this are awesome: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JKO9fEjNiio https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JKO9fEjNiio Also we need "VR Wiki". And "VR Wordpress."
Apocryphon 9y ago
Finally, the dream of VRML
- VikingCoder 9y ago
  I know, right? Except browsers sucked at the time, JS really, really sucked at the time. WebGL didn't exist. WebVR didn't exist at the time. VR Controllers didn't exist at the time. Bandwidth sucked. Most people didn't have GPUs, and couldn't render many triangles...
ngokevin 9y ago
Check out Supermedium, part of the last YC batch. We're doing exactly that. A full VR browser that runs on Web technology, but trying to seem indistinguishable from native VR. Worlds load in seconds, people publish via Web, access via links that look like anything, and "VR pages" can do anything. Scrapping a lot of the old Web baggage and redefining it for VR. http://store.steampowered.com/app/803010/Supermedium/ http://store.steampowered.com/app/803010/Supermedium/
- VikingCoder 9y ago
  Sorry to ask, but is it open source?
  - ngokevin 9y ago
    Nope, perhaps in the future. But we open source all of the reusable components and backport loads of fixes back to the A-Frame, which is open source, which we spend a considerable amount of time maintaining.
influnza 9y ago
Have you tried Windows Mixed Reality? The MR home is beautiful!
digi_owl 9y ago
VRML was once a thing... https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/VRML https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/VRML

fenwick67 9y ago

Sounds like you want VRChat.

VikingCoder 9y ago
Maybe. Does it let me host my own worlds, like running my own web-server, or am I locked in to them hosting? Also, is their file format open source, and is the client open source?
- fenwick67 9y ago
  Sorry for late reply... their authoring tools use Unity, not sure about hosting. It's not open source, but it is free (not sure how they plan on making money). Basically you can create a "world" or a character model and use it or publish it freely, and in-game you can visit other people's worlds.

empath75 9y ago

There's been stuff like this going back to the 90s, and nobody actually wants this after they've tried it. You just don't have a lot of density of information, compared to what you can get from text on a screen or even video. In addition, it's hard to use any current VR headset for more than an hour or so because of eye strain.

VikingCoder 9y ago
I think the top flaws with those things (I authored a ton of VRML back in the day) were: 1) VR didn't actually exist yet. 2) Unreal Engine is beautiful, and didn't exist yet. 3) Bandwidth sucked (and still sucks a lot for many people). I think you're completely wrong that "nobody wants this after they've tried it." I'm essentially describing Steam VR, and Oculus Home... except I also want hyperlinking between the experiences, and I want the App to download and install much more like how a Browser works than how Steam and Oculus Home works... Which would be aided a lot if we just used one damn engine (Unreal Engine) for everything, rather than having to install the full engine for every World. Eye strain: I'm very hopeful that Magic Leap or other Light Field Displays will help. Also, okay, so, VR is amazing for an hour. =)
- domevent 9y ago
  Sorry to say that MAgic Leap’s only relation to light fields is in their marketing and now defunct patents. Their actual product apppears to be a less impressive early Hololens.

T-A 9y ago

Have you tried https://highfidelity.com/ https://highfidelity.com/ ?

VikingCoder 9y ago
Ugh, no. It has "Marketplace" all over it. That's fine to add to what I'm talking about, I guess... I mean, Unreal Engine already does have a Marketplace, right? But the core idea needs to be much more like the web. Open source client, standards for content, standards for hyperlinking, open source server.
- T-A 9y ago
  > Open source client, standards for content, standards for hyperlinking, open source server High Fidelity has all that: https://github.com/highfidelity https://github.com/highfidelity The web page emphasizes Marketplace because they recently started trying to get that going too (with a blockchain-based virtual currency which they've been handing out to anyone interested).
  - VikingCoder 9y ago
    K, I'll have to look more, later. Thanks!

kalkut 9y ago

Funny you basically described what I am currently building except it is being developed with WebVR. Reddit, multi users spaces, spaces browsing/creation/sharing etc you are spot on describing what I am doing. I will release an MVP in July so I guess I should start ramping up my online presence to sell the idea !

VikingCoder 9y ago
I worry for you about a lot of things: * WebVR brings along all of the baggage of the web browser. * It's incredibly hard to get beautiful content - that's why Unity and Unreal are so popular, they made it as easy as possible Best of luck. And you should have a newsletter I can sign up for.
- kalkut 9y ago
  You are right about both points, but : * The best way to make VR and 3D browsing a thing is to have URLs to 3D/VR spaces because urls can be easily shared and most devices have Browsers. * It is hard to do something beautiful with WebVR but keeping things simple and allowing 3D models can go a long way. I think that currently running smoothly on a mid-end smartphone is more important than photorealism. * Game engines are too elitist. Common people have to be able to create 3D spaces very easily, with no code, no 3D modeling knowledge. Then they have to be able to share (deploy) with a single click. The web is the absolute platform for this. Thank you for your message, you are absolutely right about the newsletter !
  - VikingCoder 9y ago
    * I know that URLs are awesome... But URLs don't need to be HTTP. The Browser can launch this "VR Browser" thing I want. On desktop, or as you say on Android mobile it could do it with what are they called, Intents URLs? * I think you're under-estimating how important Beautiful is. You know and I know that graphics and gameplay are completely orthogonal, but WWW beat out Gopher partly because WWW was more beautiful (HTML had better layout, and had Images.) And you and I are on completely different pages if you're talking about smartphones, unless you mean like Gear VR or maybe Daydream, or the new Oculus thing... * Web browsers were too elitist. Lynx browser existed for some of them. But then people got bigger machines, faster internet connections. (Heck GLSL was too much for even state-of-the-art gaming machines, now IT runs in the Browser as WebGL!!!) I'd rather reach for the high end knowing that it becomes available. * Authoring: No question, it sucks. That's why things like this are awesome: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JKO9fEjNiio https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JKO9fEjNiio Also we need "VR Wiki". And "VR Wordpress."

Apocryphon 9y ago

Finally, the dream of VRML

VikingCoder 9y ago
I know, right? Except browsers sucked at the time, JS really, really sucked at the time. WebGL didn't exist. WebVR didn't exist at the time. VR Controllers didn't exist at the time. Bandwidth sucked. Most people didn't have GPUs, and couldn't render many triangles...

ngokevin 9y ago

Check out Supermedium, part of the last YC batch. We're doing exactly that. A full VR browser that runs on Web technology, but trying to seem indistinguishable from native VR. Worlds load in seconds, people publish via Web, access via links that look like anything, and "VR pages" can do anything. Scrapping a lot of the old Web baggage and redefining it for VR. http://store.steampowered.com/app/803010/Supermedium/ http://store.steampowered.com/app/803010/Supermedium/

VikingCoder 9y ago
Sorry to ask, but is it open source?
- ngokevin 9y ago
  Nope, perhaps in the future. But we open source all of the reusable components and backport loads of fixes back to the A-Frame, which is open source, which we spend a considerable amount of time maintaining.

influnza 9y ago

Have you tried Windows Mixed Reality? The MR home is beautiful!

digi_owl 9y ago

VRML was once a thing... https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/VRML https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/VRML