5 ms·
I think there is plenty of other opinionated* people/groups in the Python web developer community to keep the Django community on their toes. For example, Flask
by varikin 16y ago
I think there is plenty of other opinionated* people/groups in the Python web developer community to keep the Django community on their toes. For example, Flask which was mentioned in the slides we are currently discussing. Flask is from the same person/group that did Jinja, Werkzeug, and a couple other cool things. Pylons has a good user base and plenty of steam. There is also mavericks like Ian Bicking who wrote Webob and Paste (which Pylons is build on) who prefer the sans-framework approach because it is simple in Python to glue together the various libraries needed for a "framework".
Plus the addition of AppEngine with doesn't play nicely with Django due to BigTable means people look at other solutions.
Also, the Django community, especially some of the core developers do seem to respect the opinions of these other people and groups. I have seen in mailing lists and IRC where core devs agree that Django to a wrong turn here or there, but correcting that turn is a slow process. Overall, I think the philosophy of "Do it right, not right now" is a great one, and it needs to be considered with correcting mistakes.
Opinionated may not be the best term, but it is close. I really mean people that are vocal, that are respected in the community, and groups or projects that great support and communities.
*There are ways to use Django with AppEngine but all have issues. Also, AppEngine now has some sort of SQL support, but I haven't looked into it.
- wisty 16y agoZope seemed to have great people behind it, and was very solidly built, but it seemed a lot more monolithic, which ended up polarizing people. Django really benefits from the ability to swap out everything. People who hate the default libraries just find something better to use. No migration? Use South. Some people run Django on Twisted or Tornado. There are different template libraries that people use. I'm not sure if the model layer can be swapped out so easily (without messing around with custom user authorization), but there's nothing to stop people using django models for authorization, and a separate database interface (even a no-sql one) for other data.
- bsdemon 16y agoDo you really have used Zope and Django if you say that the former is monolithic and the latter allows easy swap out its components?
- singingwolfboy 16y agoIf you're going to swap out everything, are you really using Django to begin with? Why not just use TurboGears[1], which seems based on the idea of swapping out standard components? [1] http://www.turbogears.org/ http://www.turbogears.org/
- cageface 16y agoYeah, you lose the full-stack benefits of Django pretty quickly once you start swapping out components. If I wanted a more customizable Python stack I'd pick one that was designed to work that way from the beginning.
- vosper 16y agoI've avoided Django on AppEngine due to the vagaries of the AE datastore, and the extra time and planning it takes to get things working efficiently; I'm wary about using any framework not specifically designed for AE. Fortunately the webapp 'framework' that comes with AE is quite usable, though not exactly feature-packed. Perhaps I'll look at Django on AE again in the future, once I have a better understanding of how to build things correctly. EDIT: I don't think the advent of App Engine should have a major effect on Django development; my general thought when developing AE projects is to wish I was using a real server, one under my full control.
- varikin 16y agoI have tried Django on AppEngine using AppEngine Patch, but at this point, I don't think it is worth it till Django has non-relational database support. If I were to build something on AE right now, I will try Flask or Kay.
- zumda 16y agoHave you tried Django Appengine?[1] It works pretty well and supports most things in django (including the admin interface). [1] http://www.allbuttonspressed.com/projects/djangoappengine http://www.allbuttonspressed.com/projects/djangoappengine
- cageface 16y agoI've built a couple of small Flask apps and I like it too. Django doesn't really seem to have a direct competitor in the same sense that Merb was for Rails though. Merb and Rails provided a similar developer experience but had some significantly different architectures. Things like Pylons and Turbogears are much more roll-your-own than Django and microframeworks like Flask are great for what they cover but usually app requirements will dictate Django vs Web.py, for example, and not developer preference.