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For me it's an immediate turnoff if my browser tells me a site wants to show notifications. A notification means a site wants the right to bug me for my attenti

For me it's an immediate turnoff if my browser tells me a site wants to show notifications. A notification means a site wants the right to bug me for my attention when I want to be doing something else. I can think of about 1 site that I think deserves that right. Especially because most content sites want to abuse that right to pull your attention back if you forgot to close the tab after you were done. So I always hit 'Block', and then I feel less warm about the site for asking. Ditto the annoying Intercom popup that takes up way too much screen real estate. If I want to ask a question, I'll come to you. It may be just me, but I suspect a lot of HN is has similar grumpiness levels about this sort of thing.

casperc 9y ago
Same for the “18 people are currently looking at this route”. I know a lot of travel sites do it, but I don’t see how it adds any value for me to know that (if it is even true)
- Freak_NL 9y ago
  Yeah, that really puts you in the booking.com category of dark patterns. Tricks like that diminish the trustworthiness of a website.
  - HenryBemis 9y ago
    Plus.. 20 people looking at the same hotel, doesn't mean they are looking for the same dates. But for the non-detail-oriented people this forces them to make a hasty decision (that will most likely regret down the line).
    - blunte 9y ago
      I don't agree with the practice, but creating a sense of urgency is very common in marketing.
- Guest9812398 9y ago
  I looked up flights from Windhoek, Namibia to Addis Ababa, Ethiopia and there were 34 people currently looking at that route. So, the site is just posting inaccurate information in an attempt to increase sales. I don't understand how a person or a business can think this is acceptable behavior, and they lost all my trust in a matter of minutes.
  - bdhess 9y ago
    “Looking at this route” in context maybe means number of tickets on hold with the airline, or number of searches for that route in the past day on SABRE, as opposed to active users on that site right now. Trying to give them the benefit of the doubt as to that number being an accurate count of something, though agree it’s a high-pressure sales tactic that turns me off.
    - Guest9812398 9y ago
      I'm not going to give OP the benefit of the doubt. New York to Chicago only shows 18 people looking at that route, so unless this site is trending in Namibia, then the OP has some explaining to do. As far as I can see, the OP is just pulling numbers out of thin air in an attempt to line his pockets with our money, and I think it's disgusting.
- clon 9y ago
  This is a dark pattern akin to booking.com, to create time pressure for you, not provide actual value. If the latter were true, then sometimes it should say "You are the only one looking at this hotel. Take your time!" But no. Travelling to the most obscure places across Asia I have NEVER seen anything but hordes people looking at my hotel in Kampong Cham. Probably different dates too. I am willing to bet it is derived from /dev/urandom adjusted to the size of the establishment.
  - bauerd 9y ago
    >Travelling to the most obscure places across Asia I have NEVER seen anything but hordes people looking at my hotel in Kampong Cham Haha, this is so relatable. Not a long time ago I arrived at my "high in demand, better book RIGHT NOW" guesthouse somewhere in Mondul Kiri Province and had to wake up personnel in their hammocks. Turns out they had no bookings for some days …
  - rockostrich 9y ago
    > This is a dark pattern akin to booking.com, to create time pressure for you, not provide actual value. It's only a dark pattern if the number is bullshit. If the number was accurate then it would be a helpful feature, especially if they also took into account conversion ratios on that route and gave the user a real time table for how long they could realistically wait before booking the flight/hotel.
- kofejnik 9y ago
  this is called 'growth hacking' and now everyone seems to be doing it
- rockostrich 9y ago
  It's a call to action. If you see that 18 people are looking at that route and there's 1 flight that's really cheap then it's an incentive to quickly book that flight before the last seat is sold out. It's also the reason why other OTAs will list sold out hotel rooms or say "2 seats left" for a flight and why Amazon will put "3 left in stock" for certain items.
jasonkester 9y ago
While we're dumping, it's worth noting that there is no browser size for which that chat popup doesn't completely obscure at least one search result. Since there are 3 search results above the fold, that's an issue. Maybe move it to the left, or add space to the right for it to live. Or keep it minimized. Or give it some way for the user to minimize it on their own. Also, it beeps at me. That's the signal for me to find and close whatever tab had the discourtesy of doing that.
joekrill 9y ago
Definitely. I really don't understand this sudden obsession with every website wanting to show notifications.
- crispyporkbites 9y ago
  It’s a marketing channel that increases conversion rate overall, you might deny access but a % of people don’t (maybe some even find it useful) and those people convert very easily. So basically if you enable push notifications you make more money.
  - Piskvorrr 9y ago
    In other words, the usual spammer business model: "go for the suckers."
helb 9y ago
I blocked* Intercom for all websites some time ago. The thing that annoyed me more than the actual widget were the tab titles changing to "<random name> says…" every second or so. That made me want to close the tab and never go back. * – by adding this to uBlock filters, if you want it too: ||widget.intercom.io
smoyer 9y ago
I clicked on Philadelphia and the results pane wouldn't scroll - your comment is spot on (why would anyone want notifications from any application that isn't based on real-time communications) but I'm also irritated by the current trend of hacking out the browser's native behavior. Just let the content scroll (infinite scrolling is a nice DOM hack though). EDIT: I just looked at what Ghostery, TrackMeNot and uBlock Origin blocked - it's a pretty big percentage of the non-image content.
lsadam0 9y ago
I could not agree more. If my first visit to a website includes this popup asking to show notifications, my opinion of said website is instantly lowered. Give me a service that makes me want to opt in, something I need, and then you won't have to ask me to show notifications, I'll be asking you.
suprfnk 9y ago
In Firefox you can disable all notifications (and thus all popups asking for notifications to be allowed) in about:config, setting `dom.webnotifications.enabled` to false. I don't miss it at all.
- deleted 9y ago
  [deleted]

casperc 9y ago

Same for the “18 people are currently looking at this route”. I know a lot of travel sites do it, but I don’t see how it adds any value for me to know that (if it is even true)

Freak_NL 9y ago
Yeah, that really puts you in the booking.com category of dark patterns. Tricks like that diminish the trustworthiness of a website.
- HenryBemis 9y ago
  Plus.. 20 people looking at the same hotel, doesn't mean they are looking for the same dates. But for the non-detail-oriented people this forces them to make a hasty decision (that will most likely regret down the line).
  - blunte 9y ago
    I don't agree with the practice, but creating a sense of urgency is very common in marketing.
Guest9812398 9y ago
I looked up flights from Windhoek, Namibia to Addis Ababa, Ethiopia and there were 34 people currently looking at that route. So, the site is just posting inaccurate information in an attempt to increase sales. I don't understand how a person or a business can think this is acceptable behavior, and they lost all my trust in a matter of minutes.
- bdhess 9y ago
  “Looking at this route” in context maybe means number of tickets on hold with the airline, or number of searches for that route in the past day on SABRE, as opposed to active users on that site right now. Trying to give them the benefit of the doubt as to that number being an accurate count of something, though agree it’s a high-pressure sales tactic that turns me off.
  - Guest9812398 9y ago
    I'm not going to give OP the benefit of the doubt. New York to Chicago only shows 18 people looking at that route, so unless this site is trending in Namibia, then the OP has some explaining to do. As far as I can see, the OP is just pulling numbers out of thin air in an attempt to line his pockets with our money, and I think it's disgusting.
clon 9y ago
This is a dark pattern akin to booking.com, to create time pressure for you, not provide actual value. If the latter were true, then sometimes it should say "You are the only one looking at this hotel. Take your time!" But no. Travelling to the most obscure places across Asia I have NEVER seen anything but hordes people looking at my hotel in Kampong Cham. Probably different dates too. I am willing to bet it is derived from /dev/urandom adjusted to the size of the establishment.
- bauerd 9y ago
  >Travelling to the most obscure places across Asia I have NEVER seen anything but hordes people looking at my hotel in Kampong Cham Haha, this is so relatable. Not a long time ago I arrived at my "high in demand, better book RIGHT NOW" guesthouse somewhere in Mondul Kiri Province and had to wake up personnel in their hammocks. Turns out they had no bookings for some days …
- rockostrich 9y ago
  > This is a dark pattern akin to booking.com, to create time pressure for you, not provide actual value. It's only a dark pattern if the number is bullshit. If the number was accurate then it would be a helpful feature, especially if they also took into account conversion ratios on that route and gave the user a real time table for how long they could realistically wait before booking the flight/hotel.
kofejnik 9y ago
this is called 'growth hacking' and now everyone seems to be doing it
rockostrich 9y ago
It's a call to action. If you see that 18 people are looking at that route and there's 1 flight that's really cheap then it's an incentive to quickly book that flight before the last seat is sold out. It's also the reason why other OTAs will list sold out hotel rooms or say "2 seats left" for a flight and why Amazon will put "3 left in stock" for certain items.

jasonkester 9y ago

While we're dumping, it's worth noting that there is no browser size for which that chat popup doesn't completely obscure at least one search result. Since there are 3 search results above the fold, that's an issue. Maybe move it to the left, or add space to the right for it to live. Or keep it minimized. Or give it some way for the user to minimize it on their own. Also, it beeps at me. That's the signal for me to find and close whatever tab had the discourtesy of doing that.

joekrill 9y ago

Definitely. I really don't understand this sudden obsession with every website wanting to show notifications.

crispyporkbites 9y ago
It’s a marketing channel that increases conversion rate overall, you might deny access but a % of people don’t (maybe some even find it useful) and those people convert very easily. So basically if you enable push notifications you make more money.
- Piskvorrr 9y ago
  In other words, the usual spammer business model: "go for the suckers."

helb 9y ago

I blocked* Intercom for all websites some time ago. The thing that annoyed me more than the actual widget were the tab titles changing to "<random name> says…" every second or so. That made me want to close the tab and never go back. * – by adding this to uBlock filters, if you want it too: ||widget.intercom.io

smoyer 9y ago

I clicked on Philadelphia and the results pane wouldn't scroll - your comment is spot on (why would anyone want notifications from any application that isn't based on real-time communications) but I'm also irritated by the current trend of hacking out the browser's native behavior. Just let the content scroll (infinite scrolling is a nice DOM hack though). EDIT: I just looked at what Ghostery, TrackMeNot and uBlock Origin blocked - it's a pretty big percentage of the non-image content.

lsadam0 9y ago

I could not agree more. If my first visit to a website includes this popup asking to show notifications, my opinion of said website is instantly lowered. Give me a service that makes me want to opt in, something I need, and then you won't have to ask me to show notifications, I'll be asking you.

suprfnk 9y ago

In Firefox you can disable all notifications (and thus all popups asking for notifications to be allowed) in about:config, setting `dom.webnotifications.enabled` to false. I don't miss it at all.

deleted 9y ago
[deleted]