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I'm a heavy iPad user (I use the 12" pro). I'd be willing to pay $100 for a good, working Emacs. That said, I find that the experience of working on an iPad is

by jwr 9y ago

I'm a heavy iPad user (I use the 12" pro). I'd be willing to pay $100 for a good, working Emacs. That said, I find that the experience of working on an iPad is less than optimal, because of keyboards. IPad Keyboards almost universally suck, for various reasons. I actually used Apple's aluminum bluetooth keyboard for a while, because it was the least sucky. The Apple smart keyboard is an improvement, but it also sucks in various ways. There is always a problem with remapping caps lock to control, which is essential, and I can't remap other keys and use them because of the limitations of either the keyboard, the OS, or the terminal. I'd like to be able to use Emacs as I do everyday, with a Control, Alt, Command and Super modifiers, but once all the limitations are in place you end up with an Emacs where even Alt (Meta) doesn't work and you have to type esc-something, and you might not even have an esc key.

whywhywhywhy 9y ago
With all these downsides to keyboard input on the platform and wanting to use Emacs, I'm just curious what do you actually like about working on the iPad over something like a Macbook, Surface or the small MBP?
- actsasbuffoon 9y ago
  As someone with a 12 inch iPad Pro, Macbook Pro, and Surface Pro tablet, I can weigh in. A Macbook Pro is significantly more expensive than any of the other options, and frankly, I despise the redesigned MBP. The touch bar hinders my productivity, and the new keyboard tends to malfunction. The key travel is so low that the keys often get stuck. Simply put, I love Apple products, but the new MBP breaks my heart. It sucks. It's one of the worst Apple products I've ever used. Apple urgently needs to put out a new MBP based on the previous design. Get rid of the touch bar, bring back the ports, bring back Mag-Safe, and pretend this terrible laptop never happened. The Surface Pro is interesting. It's almost useless as a tablet. I basically treat it as a very small laptop. I've tried using it without a mouse, but the Windows UI isn't designed for it. I'm constantly struggling to click on UI elements that are way too small. A lot of Windows apps are not prepared for the high DPI screen, and are insanely tiny. You pretty much need a magnifying glass to use them. As an ultra-portable laptop, it's decent. It weighs very little, and the construction quality is decent (though not as good as an iPad). The keyboard for the Surface Pro is pretty good. It's slightly flimsy, so you have to keep it on a semi-solid surface, or the keyboard can start to buckle and cause some issues. The stylus on the previous model wasn't very good, but the new one is great. It's almost as good as the Apple Pencil, which is high praise. As for development, it runs Windows. If you're a C# or Java developer then that's great, otherwise it's not so good. You can run a VM, or the Linux subsystem, but that eats into the Surface's already extremely poor battery life. The iPad Pro (especially the full size version) is just stunning. It has the nicest screen I've ever laid eyes on. I'm not just talking about pixel density. Images pop off the screen. The whole device is really solid, and it feels great in your hands. Battery life is good, usability for daily tasks is superb. The stylus is the best in the business (I strongly prefer it over a Wacom Cintiq). Unfortunately the keyboard is a problem, and the inability to run development software is a showstopper. So I'd say the iPad Pro is the best hardware out there, but it's hampered by software support. In my dreams, I can run Emacs, Ruby, Haskell, and all of my other development tools right on my iPad. Since that's not possible, I use a Surface Pro for Windows related development (working on a 3D indie game), and an MBP for web development.
  - jkmcf 9y ago
    Replace the surface with a 2015 (wife's primary) and 2009 MBP (my non-work backup), and I'm the same as you. The 2015 MBP is almost perfect, and the 2017 would be extra perfect if they hadn't changed the keyboard (it's like they didn't test it on people who type for a living...) I love my 2017 iPad Pro, and I hope to someday use it for local dev. I've tried using it for dev work w/ an external keyboard, but you really need a table, whereas a laptop can be used in your lap... The lack of mouse integration is a bit annoying too, but most apps have good keyboard shortcuts. Of course, you end up SSH'ing and then it's just easier to switch to my 2009 MBP. It doesn't have the latest OS, only has 8GB of memory, but still chugs along nicely and is more dev friendly than a tablet.
- jwr 9y ago
  I run Emacs full-screen on my MBP anyway, so there wouldn't be much difference in terms of experience. But the MBP is much heavier, has short battery life, and does not allow me to do other things (quickly browse through 1000-page PDFs with the screen closer to my eyes, draw, take notes, annotate documents, etc). Don't get me wrong, I'm not saying "iPad will replace my MBP", but I would like to be able to use it.
JetSetWilly 9y ago
You could use a USB adapter and plug in a normal keyboard, like a Happy hacking keyboard or something like that? Depends how mobile you need your solution to be.
ianai 9y ago
I use a kinesis Bluetooth keyboard with mine and set the tablet in a floor stand.
puppetmaster400 9y ago
There is one good keyboard: https://www.amazon.com/Apple-Bluetooth-Wireless-Keyboard-MC184LL/dp/B002TMRZOQ https://www.amazon.com/Apple-Bluetooth-Wireless-Keyboard-MC1...
thom 9y ago
I'd love some pie in the sky Emacs environment on mobiles and tablets that incorporated voice commands, even if it just translated to M-x commands or something. Others have gone further[1], but I wonder if there's decent subvocalization tech coming to mobiles eventually to make this usable in a work setting. [1]: http://ergoemacs.org/emacs/using_voice_to_code.html http://ergoemacs.org/emacs/using_voice_to_code.html

by jwr 9y ago

whywhywhywhy 9y ago

With all these downsides to keyboard input on the platform and wanting to use Emacs, I'm just curious what do you actually like about working on the iPad over something like a Macbook, Surface or the small MBP?

actsasbuffoon 9y ago
As someone with a 12 inch iPad Pro, Macbook Pro, and Surface Pro tablet, I can weigh in. A Macbook Pro is significantly more expensive than any of the other options, and frankly, I despise the redesigned MBP. The touch bar hinders my productivity, and the new keyboard tends to malfunction. The key travel is so low that the keys often get stuck. Simply put, I love Apple products, but the new MBP breaks my heart. It sucks. It's one of the worst Apple products I've ever used. Apple urgently needs to put out a new MBP based on the previous design. Get rid of the touch bar, bring back the ports, bring back Mag-Safe, and pretend this terrible laptop never happened. The Surface Pro is interesting. It's almost useless as a tablet. I basically treat it as a very small laptop. I've tried using it without a mouse, but the Windows UI isn't designed for it. I'm constantly struggling to click on UI elements that are way too small. A lot of Windows apps are not prepared for the high DPI screen, and are insanely tiny. You pretty much need a magnifying glass to use them. As an ultra-portable laptop, it's decent. It weighs very little, and the construction quality is decent (though not as good as an iPad). The keyboard for the Surface Pro is pretty good. It's slightly flimsy, so you have to keep it on a semi-solid surface, or the keyboard can start to buckle and cause some issues. The stylus on the previous model wasn't very good, but the new one is great. It's almost as good as the Apple Pencil, which is high praise. As for development, it runs Windows. If you're a C# or Java developer then that's great, otherwise it's not so good. You can run a VM, or the Linux subsystem, but that eats into the Surface's already extremely poor battery life. The iPad Pro (especially the full size version) is just stunning. It has the nicest screen I've ever laid eyes on. I'm not just talking about pixel density. Images pop off the screen. The whole device is really solid, and it feels great in your hands. Battery life is good, usability for daily tasks is superb. The stylus is the best in the business (I strongly prefer it over a Wacom Cintiq). Unfortunately the keyboard is a problem, and the inability to run development software is a showstopper. So I'd say the iPad Pro is the best hardware out there, but it's hampered by software support. In my dreams, I can run Emacs, Ruby, Haskell, and all of my other development tools right on my iPad. Since that's not possible, I use a Surface Pro for Windows related development (working on a 3D indie game), and an MBP for web development.
- jkmcf 9y ago
  Replace the surface with a 2015 (wife's primary) and 2009 MBP (my non-work backup), and I'm the same as you. The 2015 MBP is almost perfect, and the 2017 would be extra perfect if they hadn't changed the keyboard (it's like they didn't test it on people who type for a living...) I love my 2017 iPad Pro, and I hope to someday use it for local dev. I've tried using it for dev work w/ an external keyboard, but you really need a table, whereas a laptop can be used in your lap... The lack of mouse integration is a bit annoying too, but most apps have good keyboard shortcuts. Of course, you end up SSH'ing and then it's just easier to switch to my 2009 MBP. It doesn't have the latest OS, only has 8GB of memory, but still chugs along nicely and is more dev friendly than a tablet.
jwr 9y ago
I run Emacs full-screen on my MBP anyway, so there wouldn't be much difference in terms of experience. But the MBP is much heavier, has short battery life, and does not allow me to do other things (quickly browse through 1000-page PDFs with the screen closer to my eyes, draw, take notes, annotate documents, etc). Don't get me wrong, I'm not saying "iPad will replace my MBP", but I would like to be able to use it.

JetSetWilly 9y ago

You could use a USB adapter and plug in a normal keyboard, like a Happy hacking keyboard or something like that? Depends how mobile you need your solution to be.

ianai 9y ago

I use a kinesis Bluetooth keyboard with mine and set the tablet in a floor stand.

puppetmaster400 9y ago

There is one good keyboard: https://www.amazon.com/Apple-Bluetooth-Wireless-Keyboard-MC184LL/dp/B002TMRZOQ https://www.amazon.com/Apple-Bluetooth-Wireless-Keyboard-MC1...

thom 9y ago

I'd love some pie in the sky Emacs environment on mobiles and tablets that incorporated voice commands, even if it just translated to M-x commands or something. Others have gone further[1], but I wonder if there's decent subvocalization tech coming to mobiles eventually to make this usable in a work setting. [1]: http://ergoemacs.org/emacs/using_voice_to_code.html http://ergoemacs.org/emacs/using_voice_to_code.html