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This "globalism" you're quick to demonize is one of the greatest forces for progress the world has seen. The world's poverty rates, starvation rates, sicknesses

This "globalism" you're quick to demonize is one of the greatest forces for progress the world has seen. The world's poverty rates, starvation rates, sicknesses, childhood death rates, illiteracy rates, etc. have dropped like a sack of potatoes as a result of global trade. Nationalism and xenophobia, while definitely common in the 1950's, aren't the tools to bring back the middle class of that era.

rubicon33 9y ago
Are you surprised that people are upset when resources that used to be local are spread thinly across the globe? Forgive them, when they don't jump for joy. You ignore the very real feeling they must be having when they can't afford a home. You ignore how they must feel when they put off marriage, and having children, because they're living paycheck to paycheck. You ignore how it must feel to wonder if you'll ever retire, feeling like you just barely missed the "good times". Its happening in our country, in our neighborhoods, to good people. It's no wonder Trump's slogan was "Make America Great Again". People eat that shit up right now. The standard of living is dropping and the middle and lower classes are feeling it the worst. But hurray, global poverty is down. There's a real dilution to the western experience happening right now and it's naïve to brush off the woes of your countryman with the idealistic perspective of a global poverty lift.
- pavlov 9y ago
  The wealthiest 20% of Americans have experienced the opposite of dilution over the past 40 years. Meanwhile the other 80% kept voting for policies that were actively working against spreading the income surplus more evenly. When they finally woke up to what’s happening, the blame goes on Chinese and Africans — because anything else would be suspiciously close to an argument for socialism.
  - iamnothere 9y ago
    > Meanwhile the other 80% kept voting for policies that were actively working against spreading the income surplus more evenly. That would be a fair criticism, but I don't see any major party candidates advocating for wealth redistribution. Maybe if someone was allowed to offer an argument for limited socialism then we could actually vote on it and try it out. The only semi-socialist candidate in recent memory who came close to winning the primary was railroaded through a combination of systems that favor the status quo (superdelegates), a media that alternately ignored and attacked his candidacy, and a party that actively schemed against him while nominally allowing him to run. All this after we elected a president who ran as the "change" candidate and promised to hold big banks accountable, only to stick the taxpayers with the bailout bill, increase the scope of domestic spying programs, and implement a flawed health care scheme dreamed up by the Republicans. I can understand why people are pissed. I can also understand why some might choose to vote for their narrow self-interest, given the state of our democracy.
    - shdh 9y ago
      >I don't see any major party candidates advocating for wealth redistribution Forget regulatory recapture, we're at the stage of government recapture.
- tekkk 9y ago
  George Carlin said it well: "Good honest hard-workin people CONTINUE -- these are people of modest means -- continue to elect these RICH COCKSUCKERS who don't GIVE a fuck about them."[1]. I can't say that I didn't feel bad for them but this has been long time coming. How come countries like Germany are at the same time booming, is it because there is something intrinsically different about the two populations? We are not just leaves in a stream floating around aimlessly, the people themselves have to try and change the current status quo. If the system in place does not provide a way to do it or does it inefficiently (how I view Trump election win) it does a disservice to its people. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rsL6mKxtOlQ https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rsL6mKxtOlQ
  - Clubber 9y ago
    I don't remember having the choice to vote for a non-rich cocksucker who give a fuck about me.
    - mrhappyunhappy 9y ago
      That’s your govt. buttfucking you. Sorry. Complacency has its costs.
aje403 9y ago
That's your perception Global trade is neither going away nor will there be billions more starving babies if we change our trade policies to protect ourselves against totalitarian regimes who have considerably more selfish interests than us.
PKop 9y ago
Tell that to the midwestern industrial towns, who for decades have massive job and population declines, and who see year after year of opiate deaths that exceed (in each year!!) the deaths from the Vietnam war in total, as a result of economic hopelessness. [0] You talk about death rates. The suicide rate of working class white Americans has been sky rocketing [1] You can ignore these and many many other data points to assume a narrative of unceasing improvement, but millions of people would rightly see that as nonsense. [2] [0] https://www.cbsnews.com/news/opioids-drug-overdose-killed-more-americans-last-year-than-the-vietnam-war/ https://www.cbsnews.com/news/opioids-drug-overdose-killed-mo... [1] https://twitter.com/RonStoeferle/status/877778443210903553 https://twitter.com/RonStoeferle/status/877778443210903553 [2] https://twitter.com/LukeGromen/status/969646830744227840 https://twitter.com/LukeGromen/status/969646830744227840
- dragontamer 9y ago
  > Tell that to the midwestern industrial towns The towns who are relying on cheaper steel and aluminum imports to build air conditioning units for the rest of America? Or the ones relying upon cheaper steel and aluminum to build cars? Or Airplanes? Sure, it sucks to be Pittsburgh when steel imports compete against the steel industry. But its great for literally every other industrial town in the USA. There are far more USERS of steel than there are makers of steel. Tell me: do you think the 25% price increase on imported steel (helping Pittsburgh, and almost no one else) is worth the Chinese tariff on Pork, Nuts, Wine, and other agricultural products (aka: the majority of rural American's exports)?
  - PKop 9y ago
    But China already has far higher tariffs on many goods, so the deal isn't equal already. To extend your point, I think we need to go further. Higher oil prices in 2008 did what? Increased domestic oil production, massively. We'll see this in steel, and we should take measures to do the same for other industries by equalizing tariffs vs China. But back to my point about globalization leading to massive outsourcing of jobs to China, then leading to massive economic dissolution to large swaths of the country. We can't all be "coders".. So what's the solution? We "buy local" by spending a little bit higher prices on food and hipster coffee & craft beer and restaurants etc. Why can't we do the same, at the margins for all sorts of industries. Is that "more expensive" than dealing with epidemic levels of Opioid addictions and corresponding healthcare and other costs? The current situation is not working.. or more specifically, it is not working for a particular group of people in any way whatsoever.
sheepmullet 9y ago
> This "globalism" you're quick to demonize is one of the greatest forces for progress the world has seen. Yes, it has been. Yet it's boons have not been spread equally. Most of the inequality in the US is directly tied to globalism. > Nationalism and xenophobia, while definitely common in the 1950's, aren't the tools to bring back the middle class of that era. There are 3 major levers that are causing inequality in the US - globalism, immigration, and technology. The US can do a lot to mitigate this inequality through the first two levers. Edit: Taxes are another major lever - but corporate taxes can't make a major dent so we would need much higher individual income taxes.
- mistermann 9y ago
  It disgusts me how any comment like yours that goes against the status quo here is downvoted,and if you are lucky enough to get a reply, it will inevitably avoid your points and just pivot to the same preferred talking points. Ironically, the people here expect uneducated laborers from middle America to completely understand a complex world when they themselves can't participate in good faith in an intellectually honest discussion. Who will be the first to jump for the report button boys?
  - sheepmullet 9y ago
    The HN voting system only works when most participants can keep an open mind. Unfortunately when it comes to politics it's hard for people to keep an open mind. If I am wrong then tell me where I am wrong - but don't downvote comments just because they make you feel uncomfortable.
    - mrhappyunhappy 9y ago
      Every time I make a pro bitcoin or pro blockchain comment on HN I get downvoted to hell. So much for open minds here. Seems people are very touchy feely on politics, blockchain or anything else against the grain of the majority.
      - 9y ago

rubicon33 9y ago

Are you surprised that people are upset when resources that used to be local are spread thinly across the globe? Forgive them, when they don't jump for joy. You ignore the very real feeling they must be having when they can't afford a home. You ignore how they must feel when they put off marriage, and having children, because they're living paycheck to paycheck. You ignore how it must feel to wonder if you'll ever retire, feeling like you just barely missed the "good times". Its happening in our country, in our neighborhoods, to good people. It's no wonder Trump's slogan was "Make America Great Again". People eat that shit up right now. The standard of living is dropping and the middle and lower classes are feeling it the worst. But hurray, global poverty is down. There's a real dilution to the western experience happening right now and it's naïve to brush off the woes of your countryman with the idealistic perspective of a global poverty lift.

pavlov 9y ago
The wealthiest 20% of Americans have experienced the opposite of dilution over the past 40 years. Meanwhile the other 80% kept voting for policies that were actively working against spreading the income surplus more evenly. When they finally woke up to what’s happening, the blame goes on Chinese and Africans — because anything else would be suspiciously close to an argument for socialism.
- iamnothere 9y ago
  > Meanwhile the other 80% kept voting for policies that were actively working against spreading the income surplus more evenly. That would be a fair criticism, but I don't see any major party candidates advocating for wealth redistribution. Maybe if someone was allowed to offer an argument for limited socialism then we could actually vote on it and try it out. The only semi-socialist candidate in recent memory who came close to winning the primary was railroaded through a combination of systems that favor the status quo (superdelegates), a media that alternately ignored and attacked his candidacy, and a party that actively schemed against him while nominally allowing him to run. All this after we elected a president who ran as the "change" candidate and promised to hold big banks accountable, only to stick the taxpayers with the bailout bill, increase the scope of domestic spying programs, and implement a flawed health care scheme dreamed up by the Republicans. I can understand why people are pissed. I can also understand why some might choose to vote for their narrow self-interest, given the state of our democracy.
  - shdh 9y ago
    >I don't see any major party candidates advocating for wealth redistribution Forget regulatory recapture, we're at the stage of government recapture.
tekkk 9y ago
George Carlin said it well: "Good honest hard-workin people CONTINUE -- these are people of modest means -- continue to elect these RICH COCKSUCKERS who don't GIVE a fuck about them."[1]. I can't say that I didn't feel bad for them but this has been long time coming. How come countries like Germany are at the same time booming, is it because there is something intrinsically different about the two populations? We are not just leaves in a stream floating around aimlessly, the people themselves have to try and change the current status quo. If the system in place does not provide a way to do it or does it inefficiently (how I view Trump election win) it does a disservice to its people. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rsL6mKxtOlQ https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rsL6mKxtOlQ
- Clubber 9y ago
  I don't remember having the choice to vote for a non-rich cocksucker who give a fuck about me.
  - mrhappyunhappy 9y ago
    That’s your govt. buttfucking you. Sorry. Complacency has its costs.

aje403 9y ago

That's your perception Global trade is neither going away nor will there be billions more starving babies if we change our trade policies to protect ourselves against totalitarian regimes who have considerably more selfish interests than us.

PKop 9y ago

Tell that to the midwestern industrial towns, who for decades have massive job and population declines, and who see year after year of opiate deaths that exceed (in each year!!) the deaths from the Vietnam war in total, as a result of economic hopelessness. [0] You talk about death rates. The suicide rate of working class white Americans has been sky rocketing [1] You can ignore these and many many other data points to assume a narrative of unceasing improvement, but millions of people would rightly see that as nonsense. [2] [0] https://www.cbsnews.com/news/opioids-drug-overdose-killed-more-americans-last-year-than-the-vietnam-war/ https://www.cbsnews.com/news/opioids-drug-overdose-killed-mo... [1] https://twitter.com/RonStoeferle/status/877778443210903553 https://twitter.com/RonStoeferle/status/877778443210903553 [2] https://twitter.com/LukeGromen/status/969646830744227840 https://twitter.com/LukeGromen/status/969646830744227840

dragontamer 9y ago
> Tell that to the midwestern industrial towns The towns who are relying on cheaper steel and aluminum imports to build air conditioning units for the rest of America? Or the ones relying upon cheaper steel and aluminum to build cars? Or Airplanes? Sure, it sucks to be Pittsburgh when steel imports compete against the steel industry. But its great for literally every other industrial town in the USA. There are far more USERS of steel than there are makers of steel. Tell me: do you think the 25% price increase on imported steel (helping Pittsburgh, and almost no one else) is worth the Chinese tariff on Pork, Nuts, Wine, and other agricultural products (aka: the majority of rural American's exports)?
- PKop 9y ago
  But China already has far higher tariffs on many goods, so the deal isn't equal already. To extend your point, I think we need to go further. Higher oil prices in 2008 did what? Increased domestic oil production, massively. We'll see this in steel, and we should take measures to do the same for other industries by equalizing tariffs vs China. But back to my point about globalization leading to massive outsourcing of jobs to China, then leading to massive economic dissolution to large swaths of the country. We can't all be "coders".. So what's the solution? We "buy local" by spending a little bit higher prices on food and hipster coffee & craft beer and restaurants etc. Why can't we do the same, at the margins for all sorts of industries. Is that "more expensive" than dealing with epidemic levels of Opioid addictions and corresponding healthcare and other costs? The current situation is not working.. or more specifically, it is not working for a particular group of people in any way whatsoever.

sheepmullet 9y ago

> This "globalism" you're quick to demonize is one of the greatest forces for progress the world has seen. Yes, it has been. Yet it's boons have not been spread equally. Most of the inequality in the US is directly tied to globalism. > Nationalism and xenophobia, while definitely common in the 1950's, aren't the tools to bring back the middle class of that era. There are 3 major levers that are causing inequality in the US - globalism, immigration, and technology. The US can do a lot to mitigate this inequality through the first two levers. Edit: Taxes are another major lever - but corporate taxes can't make a major dent so we would need much higher individual income taxes.

mistermann 9y ago
It disgusts me how any comment like yours that goes against the status quo here is downvoted,and if you are lucky enough to get a reply, it will inevitably avoid your points and just pivot to the same preferred talking points. Ironically, the people here expect uneducated laborers from middle America to completely understand a complex world when they themselves can't participate in good faith in an intellectually honest discussion. Who will be the first to jump for the report button boys?
- sheepmullet 9y ago
  The HN voting system only works when most participants can keep an open mind. Unfortunately when it comes to politics it's hard for people to keep an open mind. If I am wrong then tell me where I am wrong - but don't downvote comments just because they make you feel uncomfortable.
  - mrhappyunhappy 9y ago
    Every time I make a pro bitcoin or pro blockchain comment on HN I get downvoted to hell. So much for open minds here. Seems people are very touchy feely on politics, blockchain or anything else against the grain of the majority.
    - 9y ago