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What apple software do you need to use? Sure, it's annoying not having the GNU command-line utilities. But `brew install coreutils` basically fixes that for me.

What apple software do you need to use? Sure, it's annoying not having the GNU command-line utilities. But `brew install coreutils` basically fixes that for me. I admit I don't work heavily with compiled languages on macOS so I can't comment on technical aspects of that. iTerm2 is not inferior to linux terminal emulators. The Apple laptops are quite obviously the best hardware experience out there. I mean obviously iTunes is a complete insult to humanity, and I've no fucking clue how to use Finder etc, but does that matter really?

FridgeSeal 9y ago
I mean the laptops are great. Provided you don't need a HDMI port. Or more than 1 spare USB port. Or am ethernet port. You could get the touch-bar version, but I've read literally nothing but bad reviews and stories about that thing, plus tb versions have smaller batteries. Yes, I could get a dock, but here's a better idea: how about apple chills out on their unnecessary-thinness fetish, and givese back some actual functionality in my laptop.
- stiGGG 9y ago
  With touch bar i agree, it hate it. But the thunderbolt dock thingie totally rocks. It's really nice to only plug in one cable to connect the complete hardware on your desk (multiple screens, ethernet, power, etc).
  - mulmen 9y ago
    In theory the dock is nice but in reality they don't work at all. Does Apple make their own dock? Every time I come back to my desk with my laptop I have to go through some ritual involving opening and closing the laptop lid and connecting cables in a certain order to maintain screen orientations and try to get the thing to even wake up. I power cycle my dock at least three times a week to try and make it all work I used to have a 2014 RMBP with the Apple display and it was fantastic because it was all built by Apple and Just Worked (TM). Hopefully moving to their own chip fab is the start of them going back to owning the entire device solution.
    - lmm 9y ago
      Yeah, this is why I'm so happy with a Surface Book. In a couple of generations once all the bugs have been ironed out I'm sure third-party Thunderbolt docks will be great, but for the time being I want a first-party dock.
  - gurkendoktor 9y ago
    TB3 is definitely an improvement over the TB2 ports on previous Macs. But there's no reason Apple couldn't build a laptop that has both TB3 and HDMI/USB-A ports.
- iaml 9y ago
  Here's a counterpoint: I have mbp tb and I like it. Only problem I had was esc, but after a while you get used to it. I also like how light and thin it is, I can go to work now with my backpack pretty much empty.
  - FridgeSeal 9y ago
    I mean, I used to ride to work/uni with my 2009 macbook in my backpack without any issue (along with textbooks, notes etc). Compared to today's machine's that thing would seem like a tank, so I don't know why everyone goes on about these new ultra-ultra thin mbp's like they're the first laptop to be portable lol.
sreque 9y ago
I've heard it said that the greatest minds of our generation are thinking about how to make people click ads. However, I feel like the greatest minds of our generation are spent trying to figure out how to enable people to build Linux software on OSX. Whether it is: * a convoluted process involving Vagrant, Docker, or both, because you depend on one or more pieces of software that don't run at all on OSX, including Docker itself. * slogging through bugs specific to services running on OSX because they really only support Linux well, such as Cassandra or Kafka, or even MySQL. * Getting shells scripts that work reliably on both OSX and Linux, especially as the tools used to do so break backwards compatibility, either by Apple itself or by 3rd party tools like HomeBrew. * Getting a consistent development environment at all on OSX. Doing so seems to be much easier on a Linux distribution than on OSX. And that's not even talking about general issues like: * incredibly flaky bluetooth drivers, often requiring a full restart to fix, if not having to reset some weird hardware bit. * My laptop randomly not waking up properly from sleep and requiring a restart. * My laptop randomly beach-balling more often than I ever saw BSoDs on windows. * OSX seeming to just run really slowly compared to Linux whenever it is stressed in any meaningful way. * My laptop's wifi not working with random wifi endpoints, such as at the airport or hotel. Whether it's router software bugs or OSX bugs, I am always able to connect just fine on my windows laptop. * Having to deal with OSX's incredibly outdated userland and its BSD-specific userland. Yes, there are workarounds, but they are generally a pain to figure out and have not been standardized in our environment in any way. * For a few months my OSX terminal was SEG-faulting about twice a week. I learned to be very grateful for screen/tmux during that time. At some point Apple seemed to fix it, at least. At $lastjob we were actually developing a Linux service that relied heavily on Linux APIs because it was essentially creating full-on Linux containers like Docker. Before I joined, the previous developers, all big apple fans, were actually going through the tremendous effort of trying to make the service at least build and run on OSX, even if it no-oped most of the things it did. When I joined, one of my first acts was to completely remove OSX support for this service, and I promise you that life got way easier ever since. Our development processes got simpler. Our build system got simpler. And most of all, our source code got simpler and easier to read. Granted, most of us aren't developing software that directly calls into Linux APIs, but even then I think you'll find huge productivity wins if you just use a Linux laptop or desktop, assuming everything else is equal.
justinclift 9y ago
> What apple software do you need to use? Not sure if you're asking about "Apple" software (eg from Apple themselves), or OSX Software. Personally, I miss Affinity Designer, and SnagIt. Both OSX applications I've paid (though not made by Apple), and which have not-as-good-to-use equivalents for Linux. I still find myself switching back to OSX when I need to get things done using them. Rare now, but still happens.
squiggleblaz 9y ago
Quite obviously the best hardware experience? That doesn't seem obvious. I've been running Linux on Apples for many many years, but mid last year I bought a Dell. I'm certainly satisfied with it; I definitely miss the magsafe power adaptor, but that was a trade off I knowingly made. It seemed on balance that Dell had the better product. What was so obvious that after checking out the options, I bought the wrong hardware?

FridgeSeal 9y ago

I mean the laptops are great. Provided you don't need a HDMI port. Or more than 1 spare USB port. Or am ethernet port. You could get the touch-bar version, but I've read literally nothing but bad reviews and stories about that thing, plus tb versions have smaller batteries. Yes, I could get a dock, but here's a better idea: how about apple chills out on their unnecessary-thinness fetish, and givese back some actual functionality in my laptop.

stiGGG 9y ago
With touch bar i agree, it hate it. But the thunderbolt dock thingie totally rocks. It's really nice to only plug in one cable to connect the complete hardware on your desk (multiple screens, ethernet, power, etc).
- mulmen 9y ago
  In theory the dock is nice but in reality they don't work at all. Does Apple make their own dock? Every time I come back to my desk with my laptop I have to go through some ritual involving opening and closing the laptop lid and connecting cables in a certain order to maintain screen orientations and try to get the thing to even wake up. I power cycle my dock at least three times a week to try and make it all work I used to have a 2014 RMBP with the Apple display and it was fantastic because it was all built by Apple and Just Worked (TM). Hopefully moving to their own chip fab is the start of them going back to owning the entire device solution.
  - lmm 9y ago
    Yeah, this is why I'm so happy with a Surface Book. In a couple of generations once all the bugs have been ironed out I'm sure third-party Thunderbolt docks will be great, but for the time being I want a first-party dock.
- gurkendoktor 9y ago
  TB3 is definitely an improvement over the TB2 ports on previous Macs. But there's no reason Apple couldn't build a laptop that has both TB3 and HDMI/USB-A ports.
iaml 9y ago
Here's a counterpoint: I have mbp tb and I like it. Only problem I had was esc, but after a while you get used to it. I also like how light and thin it is, I can go to work now with my backpack pretty much empty.
- FridgeSeal 9y ago
  I mean, I used to ride to work/uni with my 2009 macbook in my backpack without any issue (along with textbooks, notes etc). Compared to today's machine's that thing would seem like a tank, so I don't know why everyone goes on about these new ultra-ultra thin mbp's like they're the first laptop to be portable lol.

sreque 9y ago

I've heard it said that the greatest minds of our generation are thinking about how to make people click ads. However, I feel like the greatest minds of our generation are spent trying to figure out how to enable people to build Linux software on OSX. Whether it is: * a convoluted process involving Vagrant, Docker, or both, because you depend on one or more pieces of software that don't run at all on OSX, including Docker itself. * slogging through bugs specific to services running on OSX because they really only support Linux well, such as Cassandra or Kafka, or even MySQL. * Getting shells scripts that work reliably on both OSX and Linux, especially as the tools used to do so break backwards compatibility, either by Apple itself or by 3rd party tools like HomeBrew. * Getting a consistent development environment at all on OSX. Doing so seems to be much easier on a Linux distribution than on OSX. And that's not even talking about general issues like: * incredibly flaky bluetooth drivers, often requiring a full restart to fix, if not having to reset some weird hardware bit. * My laptop randomly not waking up properly from sleep and requiring a restart. * My laptop randomly beach-balling more often than I ever saw BSoDs on windows. * OSX seeming to just run really slowly compared to Linux whenever it is stressed in any meaningful way. * My laptop's wifi not working with random wifi endpoints, such as at the airport or hotel. Whether it's router software bugs or OSX bugs, I am always able to connect just fine on my windows laptop. * Having to deal with OSX's incredibly outdated userland and its BSD-specific userland. Yes, there are workarounds, but they are generally a pain to figure out and have not been standardized in our environment in any way. * For a few months my OSX terminal was SEG-faulting about twice a week. I learned to be very grateful for screen/tmux during that time. At some point Apple seemed to fix it, at least. At $lastjob we were actually developing a Linux service that relied heavily on Linux APIs because it was essentially creating full-on Linux containers like Docker. Before I joined, the previous developers, all big apple fans, were actually going through the tremendous effort of trying to make the service at least build and run on OSX, even if it no-oped most of the things it did. When I joined, one of my first acts was to completely remove OSX support for this service, and I promise you that life got way easier ever since. Our development processes got simpler. Our build system got simpler. And most of all, our source code got simpler and easier to read. Granted, most of us aren't developing software that directly calls into Linux APIs, but even then I think you'll find huge productivity wins if you just use a Linux laptop or desktop, assuming everything else is equal.

justinclift 9y ago

> What apple software do you need to use? Not sure if you're asking about "Apple" software (eg from Apple themselves), or OSX Software. Personally, I miss Affinity Designer, and SnagIt. Both OSX applications I've paid (though not made by Apple), and which have not-as-good-to-use equivalents for Linux. I still find myself switching back to OSX when I need to get things done using them. Rare now, but still happens.

squiggleblaz 9y ago

Quite obviously the best hardware experience? That doesn't seem obvious. I've been running Linux on Apples for many many years, but mid last year I bought a Dell. I'm certainly satisfied with it; I definitely miss the magsafe power adaptor, but that was a trade off I knowingly made. It seemed on balance that Dell had the better product. What was so obvious that after checking out the options, I bought the wrong hardware?