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Democrats should be willing to compromise because they value the DACA fix more than their opposition to border funding. They are instead doing the same thing Re

by dahdum 9y ago

Democrats should be willing to compromise because they value the DACA fix more than their opposition to border funding. They are instead doing the same thing Republicans did to Obama, refusing to compromise in order to whip up their base. Any politician that compromises an inch these days will be portrayed as an immoral enemy and attacked by some vocal part of their own base.

bradleyankrom 9y ago
Ds were gonna give him ALL of the border wall money that he wanted - like $25B - and he still backed out.
- dahdum 9y ago
  They didn’t want to budge on chain migration or the lottery, Trump ran on both those so wasn’t going to budge either. He didn’t back out so much as never get in. Wish congress would have moved forward and put a bill on his desk, despite his statements he would have had to sign it or lose face.
  - nkassis 9y ago
    McConnell and Ryan refuse to consider bills unless 50% of their party supports it. This essentially prevents any bipartisan deal on issues such as immigration.
    - bradleyankrom 9y ago
      Polls have indicated that the DREAM Act is supported by an overwhelming majority[0]. If representatives don't mirror that support, then the problem is with them, not the bill. [0] http://www.politifact.com/california/statements/2017/sep/19/nancy-pelosi/nancy-pelosi-claims-three-quarters-americans-suppo/ http://www.politifact.com/california/statements/2017/sep/19/...
      - dahdum 9y ago
        Trump's issue was with what was left out. '68 percent of Americans said they oppose "the lottery that randomly picks 50,000 people to enter the U.S. each year for greater diversity.' https://www.npr.org/2018/01/23/580037717/what-the-latest-immigration-polls-do-and-dont-say https://www.npr.org/2018/01/23/580037717/what-the-latest-imm... Family based (chain migration) is more evenly split according to article.
        bradleyankrom 9y ago
        The lottery system doesn't select random people, they're qualified and vetted before being put in the selection pool.
      - dguaraglia 9y ago
        You are right! But also, the problem is that in red states, Republicans have managed to gerrymander the crap out of their districts to ensure they won't get unseated no matter how badly they represent their constituents.
- zaroth 9y ago
  The funding in that bill was over 10 years, with very little up front. It was also missing key immigration reforms that Trump said he needed to see. He is pretty clear about what he wants to see, and I’m pretty sure that he sees no deal as better than a bad deal. He’d rather keep the issue in play through mid-terms, or collect some additional policy points (gun control?) that he can throw in the mix to ultimately craft a bill that achieves his core policy objectives around national defense and immigration. I think immigration policy will be the big issue for the midterms, it will be interesting to see it all play out.
  - bradleyankrom 9y ago
    > He is pretty clear about what he wants to see Going to have to disagree on that. At best, his policy positions can be described as tenuous... more typically, amorphous.
  - omegaworks 9y ago
    > It was also missing key immigration reforms that Trump said he needed to see. "Key immigration reforms" is a great way to spin additional constraints on legal family-reunification, that exact program which allowed Melania's family to join her here in this country. He's closing the doors that he and his family used to come here and amass wealth.
    - zaroth 9y ago
      Well it was more than just chain migration he wanted changed. Also the “diversity lottery” and overall limits. No question Trump represents a large segment of Americans who want to see less immigration overall, and more selective granting of visas and green cards. The doors, so to speak, would remain decidedly open, to the tune of about a half million green cards per year. Historically average.
      - bradleyankrom 9y ago
        Visas would be disproportionately skewed toward people from well-off countries, effectively closing the door to people who want to pursue better lives in America for themselves and their families.
throwawaylalala 9y ago
"They are instead doing the same thing Republicans did to Obama, refusing to compromise in order to whip up their base." Democrats are in the minority though, not the majority like the Republicans had during Obama's tenure. If they want something done then they can do it.
- dahdum 9y ago
  Republicans started out in the minority during Obama’s term, but Democrats bled seats like crazy, especially after ACA. They are using the same playbook now, using tax reform as the rallying cry like ACA was.
  - thaumaturgy 9y ago
    It's hard for me to politely express just how disappointed I am in the direction this conversation has gone. It's total garbage. It started with what should have been a "holy shit" point, just a few comments above, and almost immediately turned into an "us vs. them" argument with basically zero value to anyone. Look at how polarized politics has gotten. It's happening right here. We have media mega-businesses now which are feeding total garbage to people, astroturfing it so that viewers feel like they're getting information from someone they can trust, and we have a President that is getting information from the same kind of sources and is citing that when announcing policy decisions. I don't care which "side" you're on, I think that's wrong, corrupt, and terrifying. If it were a Democrat doing it, hell, even citing NPR, I'd still be horrified. Some of Trump's base thinks there's some kind of deep state thing going on, where there are people in government that are controlling things behind the scenes, independent of whatever administration is in office at the time. You know what? They're absolutely right, save for one little thing: the people doing the controlling aren't in government, they're in offices in shining skyscrapers, and they own the news. And they would really appreciate it if we wouldn't talk about that, and instead just continue to argue about the stupid wall.
    - dahdum 9y ago
      The point I was trying to make is that compromise is critical in government, but our current political climate is antithetical to any. The media controls the conversation, and at the very top, I believe that's driven primarily by business interests — not political beliefs.
notfromhere 9y ago
They literally offered DACA in exchange for a wall. Trump administration then tried to change the deal and push for the RAISE Act on top of it. That's called negotiating in bad faith.

by dahdum 9y ago

bradleyankrom 9y ago

Ds were gonna give him ALL of the border wall money that he wanted - like $25B - and he still backed out.

dahdum 9y ago
They didn’t want to budge on chain migration or the lottery, Trump ran on both those so wasn’t going to budge either. He didn’t back out so much as never get in. Wish congress would have moved forward and put a bill on his desk, despite his statements he would have had to sign it or lose face.
- nkassis 9y ago
  McConnell and Ryan refuse to consider bills unless 50% of their party supports it. This essentially prevents any bipartisan deal on issues such as immigration.
  - bradleyankrom 9y ago
    Polls have indicated that the DREAM Act is supported by an overwhelming majority[0]. If representatives don't mirror that support, then the problem is with them, not the bill. [0] http://www.politifact.com/california/statements/2017/sep/19/nancy-pelosi/nancy-pelosi-claims-three-quarters-americans-suppo/ http://www.politifact.com/california/statements/2017/sep/19/...
    - dahdum 9y ago
      Trump's issue was with what was left out. '68 percent of Americans said they oppose "the lottery that randomly picks 50,000 people to enter the U.S. each year for greater diversity.' https://www.npr.org/2018/01/23/580037717/what-the-latest-immigration-polls-do-and-dont-say https://www.npr.org/2018/01/23/580037717/what-the-latest-imm... Family based (chain migration) is more evenly split according to article.
      - bradleyankrom 9y ago
        The lottery system doesn't select random people, they're qualified and vetted before being put in the selection pool.
    - dguaraglia 9y ago
      You are right! But also, the problem is that in red states, Republicans have managed to gerrymander the crap out of their districts to ensure they won't get unseated no matter how badly they represent their constituents.
zaroth 9y ago
The funding in that bill was over 10 years, with very little up front. It was also missing key immigration reforms that Trump said he needed to see. He is pretty clear about what he wants to see, and I’m pretty sure that he sees no deal as better than a bad deal. He’d rather keep the issue in play through mid-terms, or collect some additional policy points (gun control?) that he can throw in the mix to ultimately craft a bill that achieves his core policy objectives around national defense and immigration. I think immigration policy will be the big issue for the midterms, it will be interesting to see it all play out.
- bradleyankrom 9y ago
  > He is pretty clear about what he wants to see Going to have to disagree on that. At best, his policy positions can be described as tenuous... more typically, amorphous.
- omegaworks 9y ago
  > It was also missing key immigration reforms that Trump said he needed to see. "Key immigration reforms" is a great way to spin additional constraints on legal family-reunification, that exact program which allowed Melania's family to join her here in this country. He's closing the doors that he and his family used to come here and amass wealth.
  - zaroth 9y ago
    Well it was more than just chain migration he wanted changed. Also the “diversity lottery” and overall limits. No question Trump represents a large segment of Americans who want to see less immigration overall, and more selective granting of visas and green cards. The doors, so to speak, would remain decidedly open, to the tune of about a half million green cards per year. Historically average.
    - bradleyankrom 9y ago
      Visas would be disproportionately skewed toward people from well-off countries, effectively closing the door to people who want to pursue better lives in America for themselves and their families.

throwawaylalala 9y ago

"They are instead doing the same thing Republicans did to Obama, refusing to compromise in order to whip up their base." Democrats are in the minority though, not the majority like the Republicans had during Obama's tenure. If they want something done then they can do it.

dahdum 9y ago
Republicans started out in the minority during Obama’s term, but Democrats bled seats like crazy, especially after ACA. They are using the same playbook now, using tax reform as the rallying cry like ACA was.
- thaumaturgy 9y ago
  It's hard for me to politely express just how disappointed I am in the direction this conversation has gone. It's total garbage. It started with what should have been a "holy shit" point, just a few comments above, and almost immediately turned into an "us vs. them" argument with basically zero value to anyone. Look at how polarized politics has gotten. It's happening right here. We have media mega-businesses now which are feeding total garbage to people, astroturfing it so that viewers feel like they're getting information from someone they can trust, and we have a President that is getting information from the same kind of sources and is citing that when announcing policy decisions. I don't care which "side" you're on, I think that's wrong, corrupt, and terrifying. If it were a Democrat doing it, hell, even citing NPR, I'd still be horrified. Some of Trump's base thinks there's some kind of deep state thing going on, where there are people in government that are controlling things behind the scenes, independent of whatever administration is in office at the time. You know what? They're absolutely right, save for one little thing: the people doing the controlling aren't in government, they're in offices in shining skyscrapers, and they own the news. And they would really appreciate it if we wouldn't talk about that, and instead just continue to argue about the stupid wall.
  - dahdum 9y ago
    The point I was trying to make is that compromise is critical in government, but our current political climate is antithetical to any. The media controls the conversation, and at the very top, I believe that's driven primarily by business interests — not political beliefs.

notfromhere 9y ago

They literally offered DACA in exchange for a wall. Trump administration then tried to change the deal and push for the RAISE Act on top of it. That's called negotiating in bad faith.