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There's the risk that ecigs are an on ramp to actual cigarette smoking. That reflects my experience, first using a friends vape now and then to bumming the occa

There's the risk that ecigs are an on ramp to actual cigarette smoking. That reflects my experience, first using a friends vape now and then to bumming the occasional cigarette to actual smoking. There's a symmetry we don't like to acknowledge between what makes vapes good for quitting - you can slowly ramp your nicotine - and what makes vapes good for starting. See this study: https://jamanetwork.com/journals/jamapediatrics/article-abstract/2634377?redirect=true https://jamanetwork.com/journals/jamapediatrics/article-abst...

notvplez 9y ago
As someone who quit smoking thanks to vaping I cannot fathom why anyone would go the other direction. Why not just continue vaping instead?
- DanBC 9y ago
  They enjoy the experience of nicotine, and don't realise that the habits of smoking make it a bit more psychologically addictive than vaping.
  - notvplez 9y ago
    Sure, but that first cigarette you light up is going to taste absolutely disgusting, whether compared to vaping or not. I just don’t get why anyone would think it would be better to continue smoking instead of vaping, unless they’re somehow into the taste of campfires.
- frgtpsswrdlame 9y ago
  Well they're dumb kids for one. But also smoking feels better than vaping. From what I've looked into it seems that tobacco smoke contains not just nicotine but also MAOIs which amplify the addictiveness and pleasure of the nicotine. Do note that I've quit now, through cold turkey though.
  - shermanyo 9y ago
    I disagree from personal experience. Smoke is harsh and never tasted appealing to me. Vaping at a low nicotine level is a much more enjoyable experience.
- zamalek 9y ago
  Because you only realize how terrible smoking is once you've been stuck with it for a few years.
TFortunato 9y ago
Not sure why people are downvoting w/o commenting. It seems like the study concluded what you are saying - that vaping / eCigs do increase the likelihood you will start smoking actual cigarettes.
- babygoat 9y ago
  > e-Cigarette use was associated with greater risk for subsequent cigarette smoking initiation and past 30-day cigarette smoking. How about: Nicotine users more likely to use nicotine.
  - TFortunato 9y ago
    Right, which was that parents point - that it cuts both ways. There are people who get off cigarettes by moving to vaping, which is great! But you don't often hear people talking about the opposite, that vaping can also lead people to smoking cigarettes.
013a 9y ago
If there's one thing I think is absolutely true in the world of addiction, its that people will find an addiction. Everyone has a way to trigger a dopamine release; most of the time its multiple ways. Eating fatty/carby food; soda; caffeine; alcohol; smoking; vaping; marijuana; porn; masturbating; sex; exercising; prescription medication abuse; cocaine; video games; physically abusing other people; all of these tie back to releasing pleasurable chemicals in the brain of someone, and that's why they do it. Addiction is a foundational constant in the human experience. Point being, you can't get rid of addiction without getting rid of pleasure. Which means, you can't get rid of addiction. So if you tell kids "don't smoke, don't vape, don't do anything, its all bad because its addicting", you're basically self-selecting what addictions our culture has labeled as "fine" without understanding all of the side-effects of the addiction. Heart disease kills more people than cigarettes and alcohol ever did; are we ready to say you have to be 21 before you can buy McDonalds? What I'm trying to arrive at is this: I'm all for the development of safer, more accessible dopamine delivery systems. One way to look at them is that they're a gateway to harder stuff, but I tend to disagree. They will be that for some people, but those people were lost to begin with. They would have found cigarettes whether they had help from vaping or not. I think if you accept that addiction is a constant and everyone needs an addiction, then they can actually be a net positive because they can help people avoid the harder stuff. If the only way you have to trigger your dopamine is cigarettes, then if you're not doing cigarettes you're doing alcohol, cocaine, fatty foods, porn, etc. And, really, we need more research on vaping, but from the scientific research and statistics we have: vaping might be "healthier" than all of those. Its not healthier than doing nothing, but doing nothing isn't an option.

notvplez 9y ago

As someone who quit smoking thanks to vaping I cannot fathom why anyone would go the other direction. Why not just continue vaping instead?

DanBC 9y ago
They enjoy the experience of nicotine, and don't realise that the habits of smoking make it a bit more psychologically addictive than vaping.
- notvplez 9y ago
  Sure, but that first cigarette you light up is going to taste absolutely disgusting, whether compared to vaping or not. I just don’t get why anyone would think it would be better to continue smoking instead of vaping, unless they’re somehow into the taste of campfires.
frgtpsswrdlame 9y ago
Well they're dumb kids for one. But also smoking feels better than vaping. From what I've looked into it seems that tobacco smoke contains not just nicotine but also MAOIs which amplify the addictiveness and pleasure of the nicotine. Do note that I've quit now, through cold turkey though.
- shermanyo 9y ago
  I disagree from personal experience. Smoke is harsh and never tasted appealing to me. Vaping at a low nicotine level is a much more enjoyable experience.
zamalek 9y ago
Because you only realize how terrible smoking is once you've been stuck with it for a few years.

TFortunato 9y ago

Not sure why people are downvoting w/o commenting. It seems like the study concluded what you are saying - that vaping / eCigs do increase the likelihood you will start smoking actual cigarettes.

babygoat 9y ago
> e-Cigarette use was associated with greater risk for subsequent cigarette smoking initiation and past 30-day cigarette smoking. How about: Nicotine users more likely to use nicotine.
- TFortunato 9y ago
  Right, which was that parents point - that it cuts both ways. There are people who get off cigarettes by moving to vaping, which is great! But you don't often hear people talking about the opposite, that vaping can also lead people to smoking cigarettes.

013a 9y ago

If there's one thing I think is absolutely true in the world of addiction, its that people will find an addiction. Everyone has a way to trigger a dopamine release; most of the time its multiple ways. Eating fatty/carby food; soda; caffeine; alcohol; smoking; vaping; marijuana; porn; masturbating; sex; exercising; prescription medication abuse; cocaine; video games; physically abusing other people; all of these tie back to releasing pleasurable chemicals in the brain of someone, and that's why they do it. Addiction is a foundational constant in the human experience. Point being, you can't get rid of addiction without getting rid of pleasure. Which means, you can't get rid of addiction. So if you tell kids "don't smoke, don't vape, don't do anything, its all bad because its addicting", you're basically self-selecting what addictions our culture has labeled as "fine" without understanding all of the side-effects of the addiction. Heart disease kills more people than cigarettes and alcohol ever did; are we ready to say you have to be 21 before you can buy McDonalds? What I'm trying to arrive at is this: I'm all for the development of safer, more accessible dopamine delivery systems. One way to look at them is that they're a gateway to harder stuff, but I tend to disagree. They will be that for some people, but those people were lost to begin with. They would have found cigarettes whether they had help from vaping or not. I think if you accept that addiction is a constant and everyone needs an addiction, then they can actually be a net positive because they can help people avoid the harder stuff. If the only way you have to trigger your dopamine is cigarettes, then if you're not doing cigarettes you're doing alcohol, cocaine, fatty foods, porn, etc. And, really, we need more research on vaping, but from the scientific research and statistics we have: vaping might be "healthier" than all of those. Its not healthier than doing nothing, but doing nothing isn't an option.