4 ms·

Who does this stuff even benefit? The seemingly arbitrary lines drawn between marijuana, alcohol, tobacco and other "drugs" is so weird. So much moral righteous

by tabeth 9y ago

Who does this stuff even benefit? The seemingly arbitrary lines drawn between marijuana, alcohol, tobacco and other "drugs" is so weird. So much moral righteousness.

matt_wulfeck 9y ago
Why is it arbitrary? They are vastly different mind-altering affects and chemical addiction levels.
- tabeth 9y ago
  If it's not arbitrary, what are the criteria for legality? If there are no set criteria (whether it's amount of deaths, addictiveness or otherwise) then isn't it arbitrary by definition? EDIT: Regarding my comment earlier about whether or not tobacco is worse than alcohol: Looks like tobacco is actually the #1 cause of death [1] [1] http://www.csdp.org/research/1238.pdf http://www.csdp.org/research/1238.pdf
ebbv 9y ago
The tobacco companies have bought into the vaping industry, along with a lot of random other corporations and small businesses. But there's certainly NO reason to vape other than "monkey see, monkey do."
- moate 9y ago
  What broad reasons do teenagers have to vape exactly?
  - ebbv 9y ago
    Nothing other than what I said; "monkey see, monkey do." / peer pressure. Same as adults. It's just a really stupid fad.
kurthr 9y ago
The people selling it... (often illegally) to kids, who then have trouble getting a basic education and develop habits, which are long term destructive to their ability to operate within society.
- toomuchtodo 9y ago
  Mid 30s adult here who used an e-cigarette for a year or two when alone in the car for funsies (flavors smell nice). What, exactly, is the problem with kids vaping/using e-cigarettes if they don't contain a controlled substance (THC or nicotine, in these cases). We don't ban kids from consuming caffeine, so what's the problem with inert vapors? I agree that the liquid to be vaporized needs to be regulated to prevent health issues, but that's no different than the FDA regulating food safety.
  - neaden 9y ago
    The problems that I see with that are. 1. Vaping still isn't that healthy for you even if everything is ideal. Heating something up and inhaling it is never going to be that healthy. Add in possible contamination in the liquid, issues with not cleaning the vape etc. and you are always going to have some health problems. 2. It makes it easier to then switch to nicotine once they have the vape pen since the psychological and financial switch is less to just try it out once. 3. It makes it harder for schools/parents to know who is consuming a banned substance vs. an unbanned inert vapor. I think a blanket ban on vapes for everyone under 18 and a ban on tobacco for 21 and older would probably have beneficial public health impacts.
    - seanalltogether 9y ago
      > Heating something up and inhaling it is never going to be that healthy. Just to add to this. Your gastrointestinal tract has evolved for millions of years to deal with all sorts of crap you can throw at it. It's always the safest route. Snorting or inhaling compounds is a quick way to the bloodstream, but an unsafe route since the sinuses and lungs aren't as good at protection and general healing as the stomach and gut.
DanBC 9y ago
There's some evidence that young people who start vaping, who've never smoked before, are converting to cigarettes, and that this is including young people who would not have gone on to smoke otherwise. That's worrying. Smoking is very harmful and young people don't really have the prefrontal cortex needed to be able to make that decision. There's also evidence that smokers find vaping useful as a cessation tool. So we need a way to balance the harms and benefits. It doesn't help that vape suppliers in England will sell to children who've never smoked, despite the code of conduct telling them not to. This small number of bad actors will attract stricter regulation.
yters 9y ago
What about sugar and fats? Probably cause just as many health problems as smoking. The bigger problem is behavior. Focusing on particular substances is mostly a scapegoat for our lack of self control.
- dsfyu404ed 9y ago
  It's hard to learn self control when you're being micromanaged.
gowld 9y ago
> marijuana, alcohol, tobacco and other "drugs" are all unhealthy for kids.

by tabeth 9y ago

Who does this stuff even benefit? The seemingly arbitrary lines drawn between marijuana, alcohol, tobacco and other "drugs" is so weird. So much moral righteousness.

matt_wulfeck 9y ago

Why is it arbitrary? They are vastly different mind-altering affects and chemical addiction levels.

tabeth 9y ago
If it's not arbitrary, what are the criteria for legality? If there are no set criteria (whether it's amount of deaths, addictiveness or otherwise) then isn't it arbitrary by definition? EDIT: Regarding my comment earlier about whether or not tobacco is worse than alcohol: Looks like tobacco is actually the #1 cause of death [1] [1] http://www.csdp.org/research/1238.pdf http://www.csdp.org/research/1238.pdf

ebbv 9y ago

The tobacco companies have bought into the vaping industry, along with a lot of random other corporations and small businesses. But there's certainly NO reason to vape other than "monkey see, monkey do."

moate 9y ago
What broad reasons do teenagers have to vape exactly?
- ebbv 9y ago
  Nothing other than what I said; "monkey see, monkey do." / peer pressure. Same as adults. It's just a really stupid fad.

kurthr 9y ago

The people selling it... (often illegally) to kids, who then have trouble getting a basic education and develop habits, which are long term destructive to their ability to operate within society.

toomuchtodo 9y ago
Mid 30s adult here who used an e-cigarette for a year or two when alone in the car for funsies (flavors smell nice). What, exactly, is the problem with kids vaping/using e-cigarettes if they don't contain a controlled substance (THC or nicotine, in these cases). We don't ban kids from consuming caffeine, so what's the problem with inert vapors? I agree that the liquid to be vaporized needs to be regulated to prevent health issues, but that's no different than the FDA regulating food safety.
- neaden 9y ago
  The problems that I see with that are. 1. Vaping still isn't that healthy for you even if everything is ideal. Heating something up and inhaling it is never going to be that healthy. Add in possible contamination in the liquid, issues with not cleaning the vape etc. and you are always going to have some health problems. 2. It makes it easier to then switch to nicotine once they have the vape pen since the psychological and financial switch is less to just try it out once. 3. It makes it harder for schools/parents to know who is consuming a banned substance vs. an unbanned inert vapor. I think a blanket ban on vapes for everyone under 18 and a ban on tobacco for 21 and older would probably have beneficial public health impacts.
  - seanalltogether 9y ago
    > Heating something up and inhaling it is never going to be that healthy. Just to add to this. Your gastrointestinal tract has evolved for millions of years to deal with all sorts of crap you can throw at it. It's always the safest route. Snorting or inhaling compounds is a quick way to the bloodstream, but an unsafe route since the sinuses and lungs aren't as good at protection and general healing as the stomach and gut.

DanBC 9y ago

There's some evidence that young people who start vaping, who've never smoked before, are converting to cigarettes, and that this is including young people who would not have gone on to smoke otherwise. That's worrying. Smoking is very harmful and young people don't really have the prefrontal cortex needed to be able to make that decision. There's also evidence that smokers find vaping useful as a cessation tool. So we need a way to balance the harms and benefits. It doesn't help that vape suppliers in England will sell to children who've never smoked, despite the code of conduct telling them not to. This small number of bad actors will attract stricter regulation.

yters 9y ago

What about sugar and fats? Probably cause just as many health problems as smoking. The bigger problem is behavior. Focusing on particular substances is mostly a scapegoat for our lack of self control.

dsfyu404ed 9y ago
It's hard to learn self control when you're being micromanaged.

gowld 9y ago

> marijuana, alcohol, tobacco and other "drugs" are all unhealthy for kids.