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I agree. I wish Microsoft would focus on Windows 11 and not think of Win10 as the last Windows, thereby flooding it with adware non-sense. There are still a lo

I agree. I wish Microsoft would focus on Windows 11 and not think of Win10 as the last Windows, thereby flooding it with adware non-sense. There are still a lot of tech heads and gamers that depend on Windows and will continue to buy into the platform. I even know hard core Linux devs who've switched back to Win10 and just work off of the new Linux Subsystem and an X11 server. With Android being a clusterfuck of vendor specific bloatware and not having a single concept of a clean install, Microsoft should focus on keeping a clean Windows install equivalent to a fresh Mac install.

ams6110 9y ago
How is Android relevant? It's not a PC OS, and doesn't seem like a real Windows alternative in the same breath as MacOS or Linux.
cptskippy 9y ago
I agree with what you're saying and I think they need to keep Windows 10 around at least for a little while longer. Everyone hates when Microsoft changes something core and foundational about Windows and thus there has been little change in certain areas of the OS for the last two decades. That build up of cruft has become untenable and Microsoft attempted to address major pain points like the Control Panel with Windows 8, then 8.1, and still in 10. The problem is that rewriting something like the Control Panel would consume 100% of developer resources for an entire OS Dev cycle. Can you imagine if Microsoft announced Windows 11 and the only difference between it and 10 was a new control panel? Windows 10 is the perfect opportunity to start fixing cruft. It's already controversial but not universally hated, they got the majority of people to adopt it through free upgrades, and they've introduced the semi annual upgrade cycle that allows them to gradually introduce foundational changes gradually. With each release of Windows 10 they introduce a bunch of new crappy apps that are completely forgettable AND they improve a core feature silently.
- mschuster91 9y ago
  > With each release of Windows 10 they introduce a bunch of new crappy apps that are completely forgettable AND they improve a core feature silently. And with every shift towards ads or trying to force a mobile-first UI on a desktop/laptop, they alienate users off of it. I switched to OS X as soon as I saw the writing on the wall with Win8 (and Wine on OS X got stable enough to play GTA San Andreas, tbh). Also, I wonder if it would be possible to get Windows 7 userland to run on a Win10 (and with it, WSL) kernel. Now that's something I'd switch back to Windows for.
  - cptskippy 9y ago
    > And with every shift towards ads You mean like Apple asking me to use iCloud every single time I unlock my Mac? Or every time I power on my test iOS devices? Or do you mean up I have to open the App Store to apply MacOS updates and click past the ads? Windows 10 adds some shortcuts to the start menu during the bi-annual updates, they're annoying but once they're deleted they don't come back. They also have an add in Explorer for OneDrive that also goes away permanently when dismissed. If I had to choose between MacOS/iOS Ads, and Windows 10 Ads, I'd choose Windows but ideally they'd both stop it. > trying to force a mobile-first UI on a desktop/laptop Windows 8.1 and 10 don't require UWP apps to be full screen. And actually the Settings App in Windows 10 is fantastic because it responsively adapts and is usable whatever size you make it. MacOS on the other hand won't allow you to resize most settings windows and they're fixed to a size that's comparable with a 90s era Macintosh despite MacOS only working on machines with high resolution displays. > I switched to OS X ... with Win8 So you've never used Windows 10 first hand then and you're just spouting things you've read to validate your decision?
    - mschuster91 9y ago
      > You mean like Apple asking me to use iCloud every single time I unlock my Mac? Or every time I power on my test iOS devices? wtf? I don't use iCloud and don't get this nag. I only get a single question when I reimage my test computers or wipe a test device, that's it. > Windows 8.1 and 10 don't require UWP apps to be full screen. The start menu is enough for me to permanently turn me away. Or this stupid "tile" interface. What's that crap even for? > So you've never used Windows 10 first hand then and you're just spouting things you've read to validate your decision? No, it's these things that I always encounter when having to fix other people's computers. Plus I do not really like that Windows 10 has un-opt-out-able telemetry (yes, you can turn it off by hacks, but every random "update" will turn it back on again).
      - cptskippy 9y ago
        > I don't use iCloud and don't get this nag. Are you signed into it though? I'm not and it nags me to sign in. > The start menu is enough for me to permanently turn me away. Which one? 8, 8.1 and 10 all have very different start menus. > Or this stupid "tile" interface. What's that crap even for? In Windows 10 it's not unlike Dashboard in MacOS.
- Florin_Andrei 9y ago
  > With each release of Windows 10 they introduce a bunch of new crappy apps that are completely forgettable And some folks get the really big money for "driving business initiative", "spearheading new projects" and stuff like that.
maelito 9y ago
Project Treble should help for your last point.
TheRealDunkirk 9y ago
> hard core Linux devs who've switched back to Win10 and just work off of the new Linux Subsystem and an X11 server. What's the use case for a "hard core Linux dev" and WSL? I've tried it. It failed miserably for Rails development when it was released. I logged bugs. I went back to what I was doing. Maybe it's gotten good now?
binaryjay 9y ago
>With Android being a clusterfuck of vendor specific bloatware and not having a single concept of a clean install, Microsoft should focus on keeping a clean Windows install equivalent to a fresh Mac install. Speaking of Windows OEM bloatware clusterfucks here's your typical Windows HP OEM Windows clusterfuck: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=B1GyAI5d-Yw&feature=youtu.be&t=3m20s https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=B1GyAI5d-Yw&feature=youtu.be...

ams6110 9y ago

How is Android relevant? It's not a PC OS, and doesn't seem like a real Windows alternative in the same breath as MacOS or Linux.

cptskippy 9y ago

I agree with what you're saying and I think they need to keep Windows 10 around at least for a little while longer. Everyone hates when Microsoft changes something core and foundational about Windows and thus there has been little change in certain areas of the OS for the last two decades. That build up of cruft has become untenable and Microsoft attempted to address major pain points like the Control Panel with Windows 8, then 8.1, and still in 10. The problem is that rewriting something like the Control Panel would consume 100% of developer resources for an entire OS Dev cycle. Can you imagine if Microsoft announced Windows 11 and the only difference between it and 10 was a new control panel? Windows 10 is the perfect opportunity to start fixing cruft. It's already controversial but not universally hated, they got the majority of people to adopt it through free upgrades, and they've introduced the semi annual upgrade cycle that allows them to gradually introduce foundational changes gradually. With each release of Windows 10 they introduce a bunch of new crappy apps that are completely forgettable AND they improve a core feature silently.

mschuster91 9y ago
> With each release of Windows 10 they introduce a bunch of new crappy apps that are completely forgettable AND they improve a core feature silently. And with every shift towards ads or trying to force a mobile-first UI on a desktop/laptop, they alienate users off of it. I switched to OS X as soon as I saw the writing on the wall with Win8 (and Wine on OS X got stable enough to play GTA San Andreas, tbh). Also, I wonder if it would be possible to get Windows 7 userland to run on a Win10 (and with it, WSL) kernel. Now that's something I'd switch back to Windows for.
- cptskippy 9y ago
  > And with every shift towards ads You mean like Apple asking me to use iCloud every single time I unlock my Mac? Or every time I power on my test iOS devices? Or do you mean up I have to open the App Store to apply MacOS updates and click past the ads? Windows 10 adds some shortcuts to the start menu during the bi-annual updates, they're annoying but once they're deleted they don't come back. They also have an add in Explorer for OneDrive that also goes away permanently when dismissed. If I had to choose between MacOS/iOS Ads, and Windows 10 Ads, I'd choose Windows but ideally they'd both stop it. > trying to force a mobile-first UI on a desktop/laptop Windows 8.1 and 10 don't require UWP apps to be full screen. And actually the Settings App in Windows 10 is fantastic because it responsively adapts and is usable whatever size you make it. MacOS on the other hand won't allow you to resize most settings windows and they're fixed to a size that's comparable with a 90s era Macintosh despite MacOS only working on machines with high resolution displays. > I switched to OS X ... with Win8 So you've never used Windows 10 first hand then and you're just spouting things you've read to validate your decision?
  - mschuster91 9y ago
    > You mean like Apple asking me to use iCloud every single time I unlock my Mac? Or every time I power on my test iOS devices? wtf? I don't use iCloud and don't get this nag. I only get a single question when I reimage my test computers or wipe a test device, that's it. > Windows 8.1 and 10 don't require UWP apps to be full screen. The start menu is enough for me to permanently turn me away. Or this stupid "tile" interface. What's that crap even for? > So you've never used Windows 10 first hand then and you're just spouting things you've read to validate your decision? No, it's these things that I always encounter when having to fix other people's computers. Plus I do not really like that Windows 10 has un-opt-out-able telemetry (yes, you can turn it off by hacks, but every random "update" will turn it back on again).
    - cptskippy 9y ago
      > I don't use iCloud and don't get this nag. Are you signed into it though? I'm not and it nags me to sign in. > The start menu is enough for me to permanently turn me away. Which one? 8, 8.1 and 10 all have very different start menus. > Or this stupid "tile" interface. What's that crap even for? In Windows 10 it's not unlike Dashboard in MacOS.
Florin_Andrei 9y ago
> With each release of Windows 10 they introduce a bunch of new crappy apps that are completely forgettable And some folks get the really big money for "driving business initiative", "spearheading new projects" and stuff like that.

maelito 9y ago

Project Treble should help for your last point.

TheRealDunkirk 9y ago

> hard core Linux devs who've switched back to Win10 and just work off of the new Linux Subsystem and an X11 server. What's the use case for a "hard core Linux dev" and WSL? I've tried it. It failed miserably for Rails development when it was released. I logged bugs. I went back to what I was doing. Maybe it's gotten good now?

binaryjay 9y ago

>With Android being a clusterfuck of vendor specific bloatware and not having a single concept of a clean install, Microsoft should focus on keeping a clean Windows install equivalent to a fresh Mac install. Speaking of Windows OEM bloatware clusterfucks here's your typical Windows HP OEM Windows clusterfuck: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=B1GyAI5d-Yw&feature=youtu.be&t=3m20s https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=B1GyAI5d-Yw&feature=youtu.be...