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If I say “the claim that Amazon costs the USPS money has no basis in fact”- or point out any of the other factual innacuracies in the president’s months-long ta

by evan_ 9y ago

If I say “the claim that Amazon costs the USPS money has no basis in fact”- or point out any of the other factual innacuracies in the president’s months-long tantrum about Amazon and the Washington Post- that isn’t defending Amazon. If there’s a case to be made against Amazon then it should be made without making things up.

ethanwillis 9y ago
Why does Amazon use USPS so heavily? It's because they charge them much lower rates than their competitors. USPS should (and not discussing regulations could) charge Amazon more. I think it's pretty tasteless that Amazon takes advantage of regulations and the dismal financials of USPS to get cheap delivery. In the long term who wins and loses here? Amazon wins and makes some more billions and the postal workers lose as all their pensions get gutted.
- evan_ 9y ago
  You’ve moved the goalposts from “the USPS is losing money” to “the USPS is not making as much money as possible”- and still not actually provided any real numbers or facts. Wouldn’t a better solution to the problem you claim exists be to try to change the postal rate? Instead, Trump (and, apparently, you) attacks Amazon for being so “tasteless” as to... pay the bill for services rendered. Trump famously doesn’t pay his bills so maybe he just doesn’t understand how this kind of thing works? Elsewhere in this thread you argue that the ends justify the means because Amazon needs to be regulated. This ignores the possibility that if Trump is lying about his motivation, then he's also lying about the "ends" he's after: If he's trying to hit Amazon as a way to hurt the Washington Post, then you have to factor that in to your calculations. It's no longer "Amazon is too big", it's "Amazon's too big and the Free Press is too free".
  - ethanwillis 9y ago
    I actually didn't move a single goal post. I never stated that I believe that the USPS is "losing money" in the strictest sense on each of the transactions. You're projecting Trumps tweets onto me personally. I don't care if Trump famously doesnt pay his bills because that has nothing to do with how I view Amazon. If you ask me directly I'd say it's tasteless how Trump treats his contractors and fucks them around when he can definitely afford to pay them. And maybe he is lying about the ends he's after, that's the risk with allying with people who do have different motivations than you. However that's a risk you have to take in a society that's trying to organize many different people with many different opinions. It's almost like we need to debate and come as close to a solution as possible that meets each person's expectations/motivations without crossing the lines in the sand we each draw for acceptable behavior. So let's discuss all the issues so you can maybe have a real discussion with me and not just argue with me because you think I'm some Trump shill. Trump 1.) He treats women like garbage 2.) He plays games with subcontractors and employees to fuck them out of as much money as possible or not pay them at all. 3.) He plays all the tax loopholes to pay the minimum possible tax that he can. etc etc. Amazon 1.) Utilizes the USPS's precarious financial situation and their massive buying power to get lower rates that screw over the USPS in the long term. 2.) They don't care about the fact that when they have drones doing deliveries and drop USPS that all of the USPS workers who need their pensions paid will be SOL. Free Press 1.) I don't think that the press is too free when it's basically all sock puppeting for rich people whether that be Fox News or Washington Post. At the same time I would definitely oppose any kind of legislation that curtails the ability of the free press to be.. free. I don't have to support gutting the Washington Post to talk about putting some regulations on Amazon.
    - ethanwillis 9y ago
      1.) http://fortune.com/2017/12/29/trump-amazon-post-office/ http://fortune.com/2017/12/29/trump-amazon-post-office/ 2.) http://fortune.com/2015/03/27/us-postal-service/ http://fortune.com/2015/03/27/us-postal-service/ 3.) http://www.govexec.com/management/2017/09/usps-defaults-billions-mandatory-payments-despite-scheduled-relief/141404/ http://www.govexec.com/management/2017/09/usps-defaults-bill... - "He estimated at the time that Amazon pays the USPS $2 per package, which is about half what it would pay United Parcel Service (UPS, +1.95%) and Fedex" [1] - "The Postal Service reported a net loss of $2.1 billion in the third quarter of 2017, and has $15 billion in outstanding debt. The service has lost $62 billion over the last decade." [1] - "USPS’s chief financial officer, Joseph Corbett, wrote in a post for PostalReporter.com in August that the service is required by law to charge retailers at least enough to cover its delivery costs. ... He said Congress should pass provisions of legislation introduced last year by former Representative Jason Chaffetz, a Utah Republican, that would allow the postal service to raise some rates and discontinue direct delivery to business customers’ doors." [1] - "The Postal Service, writes Shapiro, “can borrow from the U.S. Treasury through the Federal Financing Bank, at highly-subsidized interest rates.” It currently borrows the legal limit of $15.2 billion at a rate of 1.2%. Without this access, it would be paying somewhere between $415 million and $490 million per year more in interest." [2] - "The worst of it came in 2012, when the USPS lost a whopping $15.9 billion dollars, followed by $4.8 billion and $5.3 billion in 2013 and 2014, respectively." [2] - "From 2012 through 2016, the agency failed to deliver nearly $34 billion toward its pool for retirees’ health care." [3] - "“Given that the Postal Service is now unable to pay money it owes to the federal retirement system and to the retiree health care system,” Cummings said, “it is more urgent than ever that Congress take action to ensure that the Postal Service continues to be able to serve the American people.”" [3]
  - ethanwillis 9y ago
    Also changing the postal rate is the issue. Let me see if I can dig up some articles for you that detail why that process is difficult.

by evan_ 9y ago

ethanwillis 9y ago

Why does Amazon use USPS so heavily? It's because they charge them much lower rates than their competitors. USPS should (and not discussing regulations could) charge Amazon more. I think it's pretty tasteless that Amazon takes advantage of regulations and the dismal financials of USPS to get cheap delivery. In the long term who wins and loses here? Amazon wins and makes some more billions and the postal workers lose as all their pensions get gutted.

evan_ 9y ago
You’ve moved the goalposts from “the USPS is losing money” to “the USPS is not making as much money as possible”- and still not actually provided any real numbers or facts. Wouldn’t a better solution to the problem you claim exists be to try to change the postal rate? Instead, Trump (and, apparently, you) attacks Amazon for being so “tasteless” as to... pay the bill for services rendered. Trump famously doesn’t pay his bills so maybe he just doesn’t understand how this kind of thing works? Elsewhere in this thread you argue that the ends justify the means because Amazon needs to be regulated. This ignores the possibility that if Trump is lying about his motivation, then he's also lying about the "ends" he's after: If he's trying to hit Amazon as a way to hurt the Washington Post, then you have to factor that in to your calculations. It's no longer "Amazon is too big", it's "Amazon's too big and the Free Press is too free".
- ethanwillis 9y ago
  I actually didn't move a single goal post. I never stated that I believe that the USPS is "losing money" in the strictest sense on each of the transactions. You're projecting Trumps tweets onto me personally. I don't care if Trump famously doesnt pay his bills because that has nothing to do with how I view Amazon. If you ask me directly I'd say it's tasteless how Trump treats his contractors and fucks them around when he can definitely afford to pay them. And maybe he is lying about the ends he's after, that's the risk with allying with people who do have different motivations than you. However that's a risk you have to take in a society that's trying to organize many different people with many different opinions. It's almost like we need to debate and come as close to a solution as possible that meets each person's expectations/motivations without crossing the lines in the sand we each draw for acceptable behavior. So let's discuss all the issues so you can maybe have a real discussion with me and not just argue with me because you think I'm some Trump shill. Trump 1.) He treats women like garbage 2.) He plays games with subcontractors and employees to fuck them out of as much money as possible or not pay them at all. 3.) He plays all the tax loopholes to pay the minimum possible tax that he can. etc etc. Amazon 1.) Utilizes the USPS's precarious financial situation and their massive buying power to get lower rates that screw over the USPS in the long term. 2.) They don't care about the fact that when they have drones doing deliveries and drop USPS that all of the USPS workers who need their pensions paid will be SOL. Free Press 1.) I don't think that the press is too free when it's basically all sock puppeting for rich people whether that be Fox News or Washington Post. At the same time I would definitely oppose any kind of legislation that curtails the ability of the free press to be.. free. I don't have to support gutting the Washington Post to talk about putting some regulations on Amazon.
  - ethanwillis 9y ago
    1.) http://fortune.com/2017/12/29/trump-amazon-post-office/ http://fortune.com/2017/12/29/trump-amazon-post-office/ 2.) http://fortune.com/2015/03/27/us-postal-service/ http://fortune.com/2015/03/27/us-postal-service/ 3.) http://www.govexec.com/management/2017/09/usps-defaults-billions-mandatory-payments-despite-scheduled-relief/141404/ http://www.govexec.com/management/2017/09/usps-defaults-bill... - "He estimated at the time that Amazon pays the USPS $2 per package, which is about half what it would pay United Parcel Service (UPS, +1.95%) and Fedex" [1] - "The Postal Service reported a net loss of $2.1 billion in the third quarter of 2017, and has $15 billion in outstanding debt. The service has lost $62 billion over the last decade." [1] - "USPS’s chief financial officer, Joseph Corbett, wrote in a post for PostalReporter.com in August that the service is required by law to charge retailers at least enough to cover its delivery costs. ... He said Congress should pass provisions of legislation introduced last year by former Representative Jason Chaffetz, a Utah Republican, that would allow the postal service to raise some rates and discontinue direct delivery to business customers’ doors." [1] - "The Postal Service, writes Shapiro, “can borrow from the U.S. Treasury through the Federal Financing Bank, at highly-subsidized interest rates.” It currently borrows the legal limit of $15.2 billion at a rate of 1.2%. Without this access, it would be paying somewhere between $415 million and $490 million per year more in interest." [2] - "The worst of it came in 2012, when the USPS lost a whopping $15.9 billion dollars, followed by $4.8 billion and $5.3 billion in 2013 and 2014, respectively." [2] - "From 2012 through 2016, the agency failed to deliver nearly $34 billion toward its pool for retirees’ health care." [3] - "“Given that the Postal Service is now unable to pay money it owes to the federal retirement system and to the retiree health care system,” Cummings said, “it is more urgent than ever that Congress take action to ensure that the Postal Service continues to be able to serve the American people.”" [3]
- ethanwillis 9y ago
  Also changing the postal rate is the issue. Let me see if I can dig up some articles for you that detail why that process is difficult.