10 ms·

This could present a significant barrier to reliable online shopping for clothes. It'll be interesting to see in the coming years, as more of these retailers of

This could present a significant barrier to reliable online shopping for clothes. It'll be interesting to see in the coming years, as more of these retailers offer online ordering (GAP is finally offering their catalog to us Canadians, for example), whether fitting will be normalized somehow, or whether each retailer will instead stick to a specific size translation table as I've seen some places. Either that or someone will have to build a website or tool that aggregates the investigative work for us. I know I'd pay a small premium to eliminate the guesswork. (EDIT: I wish there was a way to OpenID-ify personal body measurements for this purpose so every clothing site I visited could automatically select the best-fitting clothes for me. GAP small/medium t-shirts are wildly different from Threadless' small/medium American Apparel Ts)

sprout 16y ago
It's hard enough to find well-fitting clothing when you can try it on. I'm not going to be ordering over the net anytime soon.
- grhino 16y ago
  Many online clothing stores offer a liberal return policy to allow you to try them on.
  - sprout 16y ago
    If I have to mail it back, I've already wasted more time than I would have just going to a specialty store within 45 minutes of me. Soon I'll be more like 4 hours from the nearest retailer of any sort, so that may change. But I'm somewhat unique in that regard.
- steveklabnik 16y ago
  My friends' startup is tackling this issue for shoes, using lasers: http://shoefitr.com/ http://shoefitr.com/ The interface is really, really well done, check out their sample page: http://shoefitr.com/mock_checkout.php http://shoefitr.com/mock_checkout.php and click 'let Shoefitr help you choose the right size.'
  - Groxx 16y ago
    I've been waiting for something like this for shoes. Looks excellent, though I'd recommend against the shrinking between operations when finding a size (primarily in the first step). Just takes longer and looks clunky.
    - steveklabnik 16y ago
      I'll pass the feedback along. Oh, and if you actually want to try it on a real site with real shoes, RunningWarehouse.com has them up, like this, for example: http://www.runningwarehouse.com/descpageMRS-NVM5SBG.html http://www.runningwarehouse.com/descpageMRS-NVM5SBG.html
      - jacquesm 16y ago
        That's an amazing interface but it needs more brands and models in there, everything I tried came up 'sorry, we don't have that model scanned' or something to that effect. But it's one of the nicer 'live' (ajax) interfaces that I've seen.
        steveklabnik 16y ago
        Out of curiosity, were you inputting running shoes? I think they've decided to focus on just running shoes first, and while they've been hard at it, it physically takes time and effort to get the raw data.
        jacquesm 16y ago
        Yep. > it physically takes time and effort to get the raw data. I can see that... btw, the Reebok brand is one of the more popular ones and completely missing. Again, kudos on the interface to your friend, I love it when people use new tech in non-fluffy ways (as in useful rather than eye candy). (and it looks great too!)
  - marcinw 16y ago
    Interesting... this would be really helpful if it also took into account pronation (see http://www.runnersworld.com/article/0,7120,s6-240-319-327-7727-0,00.html http://www.runnersworld.com/article/0,7120,s6-240-319-327-77...).
karzeem 16y ago
In my experience, it's already a problem. When I'm shopping online with a brand whose fit I don't know, I order everything in medium and large and then return the size that fits less well. I'd imagine most online clothing stores have sky-high return rates. I don't think many brands would want to do this, but it would help if they had a chart showing how their fit compares to other brands. E.g. "much looser than Dolce & Gabbana, looser than Calvin Klein, tighter than Gap".
oiuygtfrtghyju 16y ago
mec.ca online store has something like this. You rate the fit on several sliding scales (too long/too short etc) then buyers can estimate = I should buy brand X a size larger/smaller.
city41 16y ago
> build a website or tool that aggregates the investigative work for us My bane has always been t-shirts. I can take anywhere from a medium to x-large depending on the brand. After the first wash, the shirt will change size drastically or hardly at all. Buying t-shirts is a complete $20 gamble, I have no idea if ultimately the shirt will fit me or not. At least pants, dress shirts and shoes you can be reasonably confident they will fit you when you try them on at the store. I've always yearned for some kind of solution to this, but admittedly have never really came up with a good one.
- scott_s 16y ago
  Same situation for me. I purchased some XL tshirts at Old Navy a year back, and I can't wear them. It's one thing if an XL fits more like a L, but these are like a M.
LogicHoleFlaw 16y ago
Wow. I had a long, detailed conversation last night with my roommate/potential co-founder about doing EXACTLY this. The way sizing is handled in the clothing industry is ridiculous for women especially, but for men as well according to this article. The basic technology product is software that, given information about your body shape, can produce a listing of clothing that will fit you. As far as we can tell this does not yet exist. When the customer can trust that the clothes will fit, then they can shop based on style, fashion, price, or any other number of more interesting criteria rather than worrying about getting the right size or cut. If you pair this technology with a customer-centered online retail environment then I think you can create a lot of value. Zappos has shown that you can make buying articles of clothing online work, with their famous customer support and return policies. The concept of requiring a customer to consult a sizing translation table per label or even per garment just to find clothes that fit well flabbergasts me. But we haven't found any better solutions on offer. This all fits in with Request For Startup 2: New Paths Through Product Space. http://ycombinator.com/rfs2.html http://ycombinator.com/rfs2.html Nobody is selling clothing based on what fits the individual shopper. We want to make an online storefront that only offers clothing that will fit you. There are a lot of negative knock-on effects from the current way clothes shopping is done. People agonize over sizing and equate their waistband with their self-worth. That's ridiculous. Every person will look best and be most comfortable in clothing that matches their actual shape, regardless of what number is on the label. Especially if that number is a lie! Clothes shopping changed drastically starting in about the mid 1800s through the 1920s with the advent of mass-produced garments. Before that each item was made individually. After that, confusing labels, garments designed to fit the "average" person to minimize the need for alterations, changing demographics, and vanity sizing turned the whole system into an incredible morass. It wasn't always this way, and it shouldn't have to be. The article suggests that government regulation of sizing labels is the solution to the problem of ill-fitting clothing. What the author does not mention is that this was tried in the past! That system fell apart and you can read about its failure from the NIST: http://museum.nist.gov/exhibits/apparel/index.htm http://museum.nist.gov/exhibits/apparel/index.htm I posit that smarter technology which can match the clothing to the person is a superior solution. There's a lot of pain involved in clothes shopping today. We want to fix that. If any hackers here, especially women, have some thoughts to share on this topic I dearly want to hear them, whether in a post here or in a private email. My address is in my profile. We are seriously considering applying to YCombinator with this proposal.
kmfrk 16y ago
I've basically given up buying clothing from the US (living in Europe). T-shirts in particularly are enormous by European standards. I have neither a tiny nor a particularly big frame, but I feel tiny when I get the shirt I ordered online.
sliverstorm 16y ago
I've never had a problem with it. I wear 31x34. Then again, I only ever buy Levi's, so obviously I don't experience any brand variance. I'd be interested to see where they stack up on the chart.

sprout 16y ago

It's hard enough to find well-fitting clothing when you can try it on. I'm not going to be ordering over the net anytime soon.

grhino 16y ago
Many online clothing stores offer a liberal return policy to allow you to try them on.
- sprout 16y ago
  If I have to mail it back, I've already wasted more time than I would have just going to a specialty store within 45 minutes of me. Soon I'll be more like 4 hours from the nearest retailer of any sort, so that may change. But I'm somewhat unique in that regard.
steveklabnik 16y ago
My friends' startup is tackling this issue for shoes, using lasers: http://shoefitr.com/ http://shoefitr.com/ The interface is really, really well done, check out their sample page: http://shoefitr.com/mock_checkout.php http://shoefitr.com/mock_checkout.php and click 'let Shoefitr help you choose the right size.'
- Groxx 16y ago
  I've been waiting for something like this for shoes. Looks excellent, though I'd recommend against the shrinking between operations when finding a size (primarily in the first step). Just takes longer and looks clunky.
  - steveklabnik 16y ago
    I'll pass the feedback along. Oh, and if you actually want to try it on a real site with real shoes, RunningWarehouse.com has them up, like this, for example: http://www.runningwarehouse.com/descpageMRS-NVM5SBG.html http://www.runningwarehouse.com/descpageMRS-NVM5SBG.html
    - jacquesm 16y ago
      That's an amazing interface but it needs more brands and models in there, everything I tried came up 'sorry, we don't have that model scanned' or something to that effect. But it's one of the nicer 'live' (ajax) interfaces that I've seen.
      - steveklabnik 16y ago
        Out of curiosity, were you inputting running shoes? I think they've decided to focus on just running shoes first, and while they've been hard at it, it physically takes time and effort to get the raw data.
        jacquesm 16y ago
        Yep. > it physically takes time and effort to get the raw data. I can see that... btw, the Reebok brand is one of the more popular ones and completely missing. Again, kudos on the interface to your friend, I love it when people use new tech in non-fluffy ways (as in useful rather than eye candy). (and it looks great too!)
- marcinw 16y ago
  Interesting... this would be really helpful if it also took into account pronation (see http://www.runnersworld.com/article/0,7120,s6-240-319-327-7727-0,00.html http://www.runnersworld.com/article/0,7120,s6-240-319-327-77...).

karzeem 16y ago

In my experience, it's already a problem. When I'm shopping online with a brand whose fit I don't know, I order everything in medium and large and then return the size that fits less well. I'd imagine most online clothing stores have sky-high return rates. I don't think many brands would want to do this, but it would help if they had a chart showing how their fit compares to other brands. E.g. "much looser than Dolce & Gabbana, looser than Calvin Klein, tighter than Gap".

oiuygtfrtghyju 16y ago

mec.ca online store has something like this. You rate the fit on several sliding scales (too long/too short etc) then buyers can estimate = I should buy brand X a size larger/smaller.

city41 16y ago

> build a website or tool that aggregates the investigative work for us My bane has always been t-shirts. I can take anywhere from a medium to x-large depending on the brand. After the first wash, the shirt will change size drastically or hardly at all. Buying t-shirts is a complete $20 gamble, I have no idea if ultimately the shirt will fit me or not. At least pants, dress shirts and shoes you can be reasonably confident they will fit you when you try them on at the store. I've always yearned for some kind of solution to this, but admittedly have never really came up with a good one.

scott_s 16y ago
Same situation for me. I purchased some XL tshirts at Old Navy a year back, and I can't wear them. It's one thing if an XL fits more like a L, but these are like a M.

LogicHoleFlaw 16y ago

Wow. I had a long, detailed conversation last night with my roommate/potential co-founder about doing EXACTLY this. The way sizing is handled in the clothing industry is ridiculous for women especially, but for men as well according to this article. The basic technology product is software that, given information about your body shape, can produce a listing of clothing that will fit you. As far as we can tell this does not yet exist. When the customer can trust that the clothes will fit, then they can shop based on style, fashion, price, or any other number of more interesting criteria rather than worrying about getting the right size or cut. If you pair this technology with a customer-centered online retail environment then I think you can create a lot of value. Zappos has shown that you can make buying articles of clothing online work, with their famous customer support and return policies. The concept of requiring a customer to consult a sizing translation table per label or even per garment just to find clothes that fit well flabbergasts me. But we haven't found any better solutions on offer. This all fits in with Request For Startup 2: New Paths Through Product Space. http://ycombinator.com/rfs2.html http://ycombinator.com/rfs2.html Nobody is selling clothing based on what fits the individual shopper. We want to make an online storefront that only offers clothing that will fit you. There are a lot of negative knock-on effects from the current way clothes shopping is done. People agonize over sizing and equate their waistband with their self-worth. That's ridiculous. Every person will look best and be most comfortable in clothing that matches their actual shape, regardless of what number is on the label. Especially if that number is a lie! Clothes shopping changed drastically starting in about the mid 1800s through the 1920s with the advent of mass-produced garments. Before that each item was made individually. After that, confusing labels, garments designed to fit the "average" person to minimize the need for alterations, changing demographics, and vanity sizing turned the whole system into an incredible morass. It wasn't always this way, and it shouldn't have to be. The article suggests that government regulation of sizing labels is the solution to the problem of ill-fitting clothing. What the author does not mention is that this was tried in the past! That system fell apart and you can read about its failure from the NIST: http://museum.nist.gov/exhibits/apparel/index.htm http://museum.nist.gov/exhibits/apparel/index.htm I posit that smarter technology which can match the clothing to the person is a superior solution. There's a lot of pain involved in clothes shopping today. We want to fix that. If any hackers here, especially women, have some thoughts to share on this topic I dearly want to hear them, whether in a post here or in a private email. My address is in my profile. We are seriously considering applying to YCombinator with this proposal.

kmfrk 16y ago

I've basically given up buying clothing from the US (living in Europe). T-shirts in particularly are enormous by European standards. I have neither a tiny nor a particularly big frame, but I feel tiny when I get the shirt I ordered online.

sliverstorm 16y ago

I've never had a problem with it. I wear 31x34. Then again, I only ever buy Levi's, so obviously I don't experience any brand variance. I'd be interested to see where they stack up on the chart.