3 ms·

Yeah, UK (Or should that be not sure). Seems to be the same result by a different mechanism? I'm not entirely sure what the alternative view is of how this sit

Yeah, UK (Or should that be not sure). Seems to be the same result by a different mechanism? I'm not entirely sure what the alternative view is of how this situation has come about. Why are students willingly entering into this deal. Is it being missold? Shouldn't there be a lack of demand.

rocqua 9y ago
From what I know, British PhDs are positions that pay a wage. Whereas in the US, you need to find your own funding. Thus, in the US there is more pressure on a PhD, because they need to take care of their pay.
- tnecniv 9y ago
  In the US, your funding primarily comes from your PI. You may have to supplement it via TAing some semesters depending on your group's resources. Even if you are lucky enough to get something like an NSF GRFP, that wont fund your full five or more years as a student.
  - rocqua 9y ago
    Duration is another difference, 5 year PhDs are rare in Europe. The Netherlands mostly has 4 year programs, Germany mostly seems to have 3 years. At the same time, PhDs here require a MSc (2 years usually), which in turn requires a BSc (3 years usually). So in the end, total time from start to PhD doesn't differ too much.
- joshvm 9y ago
  British PhDs are somewhat unusual as you are still explicitly a student - with all the tax benefits that entails. Most positions are funded by Research Councils UK (STFC, EPSRC, NERC and so on) which gives a reasonable tax-free salary. You get council tax exemption, no student loan repayments, no income tax/national insurance. You also get 8 weeks holiday entitlement as standard. We have tuition-only grants for EU students, but that doesn't include living. Vanishingly few universities provide full funding for foreign students - the exception is positions which have project funding. In most of Europe the situation is different: you're employed by the university. This has ups and downs. On the upside, it doesn't matter where you're from, you still get paid. On the downside you're a salaried employee with all the tax burdens, crappy holiday and HR requirements that brings. The pressure in the UK is time. Universities are now under serious pressure to churn students and 4 years is a hard deadline. Typically you need special permission and have to pay a fee to submit after 4 years. In most cases you're also only funded for 3 years, occasionally 3.5. In other countries, where you have an employment contract, it's less urgent provided your group has funding. It's common for EU PhDs to take 4-5 years. This is again good and bad. The British system encourages rapid specalisation at the expense of breadth of study and number of publications. Realistically in the UK if you get one journal publication, you've done well. Abroad, it's expected you'll get at least 2-3 and in some places you need 4-5 to form a thesis.

rocqua 9y ago

From what I know, British PhDs are positions that pay a wage. Whereas in the US, you need to find your own funding. Thus, in the US there is more pressure on a PhD, because they need to take care of their pay.

tnecniv 9y ago
In the US, your funding primarily comes from your PI. You may have to supplement it via TAing some semesters depending on your group's resources. Even if you are lucky enough to get something like an NSF GRFP, that wont fund your full five or more years as a student.
- rocqua 9y ago
  Duration is another difference, 5 year PhDs are rare in Europe. The Netherlands mostly has 4 year programs, Germany mostly seems to have 3 years. At the same time, PhDs here require a MSc (2 years usually), which in turn requires a BSc (3 years usually). So in the end, total time from start to PhD doesn't differ too much.
joshvm 9y ago
British PhDs are somewhat unusual as you are still explicitly a student - with all the tax benefits that entails. Most positions are funded by Research Councils UK (STFC, EPSRC, NERC and so on) which gives a reasonable tax-free salary. You get council tax exemption, no student loan repayments, no income tax/national insurance. You also get 8 weeks holiday entitlement as standard. We have tuition-only grants for EU students, but that doesn't include living. Vanishingly few universities provide full funding for foreign students - the exception is positions which have project funding. In most of Europe the situation is different: you're employed by the university. This has ups and downs. On the upside, it doesn't matter where you're from, you still get paid. On the downside you're a salaried employee with all the tax burdens, crappy holiday and HR requirements that brings. The pressure in the UK is time. Universities are now under serious pressure to churn students and 4 years is a hard deadline. Typically you need special permission and have to pay a fee to submit after 4 years. In most cases you're also only funded for 3 years, occasionally 3.5. In other countries, where you have an employment contract, it's less urgent provided your group has funding. It's common for EU PhDs to take 4-5 years. This is again good and bad. The British system encourages rapid specalisation at the expense of breadth of study and number of publications. Realistically in the UK if you get one journal publication, you've done well. Abroad, it's expected you'll get at least 2-3 and in some places you need 4-5 to form a thesis.