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I'm failing to see a use case for gameref. At the big tournaments the computer is provided by the organizer. For online tournaments, wallhacks and maphacks won

by metjm 9y ago

I'm failing to see a use case for gameref. At the big tournaments the computer is provided by the organizer. For online tournaments, wallhacks and maphacks won't be detected by this device. > I'm curious why you say this. I'm a machine learning noob, but it seems pretty straightforward that it would work. Relating to wallhacks, they can use your last say 1,000 matches, and if you're never/rarely surprised by a camping enemy, you're probably cheating. Exactly. And not just that, wouldn't ML in theory also be able to detect subtle reactions to changes that the player shouldn't see? For example if a cheater has a map hack that only shows dots on the minimap, and does some small action like twitch with the mouse when an enemy he's following and can't see or hear ingame, changes direction?

dvt 9y ago
> I'm failing to see a use case for gameref. At the big tournaments the computer is provided by the organizer. For online tournaments, wallhacks and maphacks won't be detected by this device. There have been cases of people smuggling aimbots in onboard mice drivers. There was also a Steam oversight where hacks could be loaded via the workshop feature. A semi-pro German player was caught in 2015 I believe.
- chi3 9y ago
  There has never been a proven case of either as far as I know, only theories and "insiders" claiming these things. The german guy who was caught was saying a lot of these things which obviously weren't true, like claiming that a lot of other players in top teams were cheating on LAN, but in hindsight that hardly seems believable. A driver cheat which would auto-inject code on insertion would as far as I know require a 0-day exploit on Windows, and I have a hard time believing one of the cheat devs was sitting on one of those.
  - dvt 9y ago
    > The german guy who was caught was saying a lot of these things which obviously weren't true, like claiming that a lot of other players in top teams were cheating on LAN, but in hindsight that hardly seems believable. I mean, there were 3 pro players banned in like a week. I doubt this was coincidence [1]. > A driver cheat which would auto-inject code on insertion would as far as I know require a 0-day exploit on Windows, and I have a hard time believing one of the cheat makers was sitting on one of those It's not completely out of the question. Check out this DEF CON hack which illustrates something similar[2]. [1] https://www.pcgamer.com/csgo-competitive-scene-embroiled-in-hacking-scandal-as-three-players-are-banned/ https://www.pcgamer.com/csgo-competitive-scene-embroiled-in-... [2] https://theoutline.com/post/2032/how-to-hack-a-mouse-to-win-millions-at-esports?zd=1&zi=d6mb2onj https://theoutline.com/post/2032/how-to-hack-a-mouse-to-win-...
    - chi3 9y ago
      About [2], yeah, that's the way it could happen without a 0-day, but it really does seem very, very impractical, risky and unlikely. Out of sf, KQLY and Emilio, it does seem likely that both sf and Emilio would cheat online in order to qualify, but KQLY whose team almost always passed online qualifiers? I have no idea. If I recall correctly, Emilio was banned months prior to the others though, and he hardly played any major LANs. sf and KQLY were using the same cheat, but there's nothing which makes it seem like it happened on LANs. Either way, it's impossible to say what happened years ago, but if it did happen, I doubt it kept happening.
  - leetbulb 9y ago
    > A driver cheat which would auto-inject code on insertion would as far as I know require a 0-day exploit on Windows, and I have a hard time believing one of the cheat devs was sitting on one of those. Nowadays there's definitely a market for it. eSports is turning in to a multi-billion dollar industry. 0day's can be cheap enough for the type of people willing to risk five figures on CSGO betting, etc.
chi3 9y ago
There was a huge scandal in CSGO a few years ago where people started thinking a top professional player had been cheating in a major LAN, and that was about when he came up with the gameref. The player was banned for cheating, but whether that was on LAN or in online games is still unknown. The cheat was allegedly injected into the game through an exploit in a custom map which you could download through steam.

by metjm 9y ago

dvt 9y ago

> I'm failing to see a use case for gameref. At the big tournaments the computer is provided by the organizer. For online tournaments, wallhacks and maphacks won't be detected by this device. There have been cases of people smuggling aimbots in onboard mice drivers. There was also a Steam oversight where hacks could be loaded via the workshop feature. A semi-pro German player was caught in 2015 I believe.

chi3 9y ago
There has never been a proven case of either as far as I know, only theories and "insiders" claiming these things. The german guy who was caught was saying a lot of these things which obviously weren't true, like claiming that a lot of other players in top teams were cheating on LAN, but in hindsight that hardly seems believable. A driver cheat which would auto-inject code on insertion would as far as I know require a 0-day exploit on Windows, and I have a hard time believing one of the cheat devs was sitting on one of those.
- dvt 9y ago
  > The german guy who was caught was saying a lot of these things which obviously weren't true, like claiming that a lot of other players in top teams were cheating on LAN, but in hindsight that hardly seems believable. I mean, there were 3 pro players banned in like a week. I doubt this was coincidence [1]. > A driver cheat which would auto-inject code on insertion would as far as I know require a 0-day exploit on Windows, and I have a hard time believing one of the cheat makers was sitting on one of those It's not completely out of the question. Check out this DEF CON hack which illustrates something similar[2]. [1] https://www.pcgamer.com/csgo-competitive-scene-embroiled-in-hacking-scandal-as-three-players-are-banned/ https://www.pcgamer.com/csgo-competitive-scene-embroiled-in-... [2] https://theoutline.com/post/2032/how-to-hack-a-mouse-to-win-millions-at-esports?zd=1&zi=d6mb2onj https://theoutline.com/post/2032/how-to-hack-a-mouse-to-win-...
  - chi3 9y ago
    About [2], yeah, that's the way it could happen without a 0-day, but it really does seem very, very impractical, risky and unlikely. Out of sf, KQLY and Emilio, it does seem likely that both sf and Emilio would cheat online in order to qualify, but KQLY whose team almost always passed online qualifiers? I have no idea. If I recall correctly, Emilio was banned months prior to the others though, and he hardly played any major LANs. sf and KQLY were using the same cheat, but there's nothing which makes it seem like it happened on LANs. Either way, it's impossible to say what happened years ago, but if it did happen, I doubt it kept happening.
- leetbulb 9y ago
  > A driver cheat which would auto-inject code on insertion would as far as I know require a 0-day exploit on Windows, and I have a hard time believing one of the cheat devs was sitting on one of those. Nowadays there's definitely a market for it. eSports is turning in to a multi-billion dollar industry. 0day's can be cheap enough for the type of people willing to risk five figures on CSGO betting, etc.

chi3 9y ago

There was a huge scandal in CSGO a few years ago where people started thinking a top professional player had been cheating in a major LAN, and that was about when he came up with the gameref. The player was banned for cheating, but whether that was on LAN or in online games is still unknown. The cheat was allegedly injected into the game through an exploit in a custom map which you could download through steam.