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Unfortunately antisemitism in Europe has a long and dark history, the Holocaust only being the most vivid and recent eruption of anti semitic emotions. On a re

Unfortunately antisemitism in Europe has a long and dark history, the Holocaust only being the most vivid and recent eruption of anti semitic emotions. On a related note, it's odd to me how people are so vociferously anti-Israel in Europe. Can't they see that the Jews were treated as second class citizens on what had been their ancestral homelands for over a millennia following the original spread of Islam? This being the case, the creation of Israel is amends for the sustained history of Jewish oppression and displacement in the Middle East. Willfully ignoring this seems like a choice motivated by latent bias against the Jews more than anything else.

domevent 9y ago
It’s not that latent, it just got a little quiet after WWII, but it’s been roaring back to life for years now.
- gaius 9y ago
  And has millions of votes, if you look at the British Labour Party.
  - stuaxo 9y ago
    You are really saying people vote labour because of anti jewish bias? I think most people don't have an opinion about Jews one way or another. Most of the antisemtic people I've met are into conspiracy theories, and they seem to be evenly split between right and left.
    - gaius 9y ago
      Perhaps you are unaware of the recent issues around Corbyn and Momentum?
deleted 9y ago
[deleted]
__blockcipher__ 9y ago
I am neutral in the Israel vs Palestine debate...I think. At least, as neutral as you can be. And I find it ridiculous that Israel can try to claim jerusalem for itself, a ground that is considered equally sacred by every religion of the book (christianity/judaeism/islam). Frankly I feel all religions of the book are ridiculous and we’d be better off if nobody had claim to the holy land. But ofc that will never happen.
- braderhart 9y ago
  FYI I got shadowbanned from Hacker News for basically saying what you just did.
throwaway6969 9y ago
I wonder how many people are anti-Israel because of the new settlements they keep on building in East Jerusalem? They are doing so despite broad condemnation.
- meri_dian 9y ago
  Yeah, many people condemn all of Israel. I guess they should just pack it up an call it a day... The Jews have tried for decades to make peace. They've received rockets and hatred in response. They're fed up, and rightfully so.
  - forvelin 9y ago
    This will be absurdly political if we go on but please try to have an empathy a bit. Arabs have been there since centuries, some well planned religious migrations happened in last 100 years and then we have this mess. Why can't we go back to UN plan and call it a day ?
    - meri_dian 9y ago
      I do have empathy. The nations surrounding Israel unfortunately do not. If they decided to convene a summit tomorrow and say "we accept the existence of Israel" instead of their hateful rhetoric that they want to see Israel wiped off the map, the entire problem would be solved. The victim blaming here is deplorable. The Arabs refuse to accept a Jewish Homeland. Hence the wars, hence the sustained conflict.
      - farseer 9y ago
        >>I do have empathy. The nations surrounding Israel unfortunately do not. Some intellectual honesty please? The two nations with the largest land border with Israel I.e Jordan and Egypt both recognize and have diplomatic relations with Israel. >>The Arabs refuse to accept a Jewish Homeland The question is a Jewish Homeland under what borders? The problem with Israel is that it was never ever content within it's borders. That was adequately demonstrated 7 years after it's independence when it invaded Egypt in 1956 to annex Sinai and double its territory. If not for Eisenhower putting sense into Ben Gurion.[1] The Arabs are right fully scared to recognize any entity that has no intention to define its final borders and keeps annexing land outside the UN plan. The Israeli claim of being "provoked" into capturing land also doesn't hold any water as the Sinai campaign of 1956 shows. [1]https://www.haaretz.com/israel-news/.premium-how-israel-gave-up-the-idea-of-annexing-sinai-and-gaza-1.5468782 https://www.haaretz.com/israel-news/.premium-how-israel-gave...
Mizza 9y ago
So because of events a thousand years ago the Israelis should be immune from criticism? Give me a break. Israel is an apartheid state and sensible people don't like that. And the right of "ancestral homeland" should be respected for Israelis, but not Europeans? etc. In a rational society, any and all groups as valid targets for fair criticism. It doesn't mean that racists/reactionaries get a free pass, but it does mean that nobody gets special treatment.
- meri_dian 9y ago
  No one is saying the Jews should get a free pass for anything they do. Just that Israel seems like a very small reparation to pay for centuries of oppression. Israel is a far, far less "apartheid" nation than other middle eastern nations. So why does Israel get all the hate? Because of latent anti-Semitic beliefs in society, which is the point of my post.
  - nyolfen 9y ago
    >Just that Israel seems like a very small reparation to pay for centuries of oppression. easy to say when it's not your family that loses their land and lives in an open-air prison
    - eanzenberg 9y ago
      Easy to picture when you compare land mass sizes.
- eanzenberg 9y ago
  The point of Israel is no one wants the Jews. Europe doesn’t want them. Russia doesn’t want them. The middle east sure as shit doesn’t want them. The US tolerates them. Let that sink in.
  - Mizza 9y ago
    "Let that sink in" isn't an argument, and it especially isn't an argument that justifies apartheid. Nobody in Europe is saying Israel shouldn't exist, just that it should be held to modern western moral standards and accountability with regards to human rights.

domevent 9y ago

It’s not that latent, it just got a little quiet after WWII, but it’s been roaring back to life for years now.

gaius 9y ago
And has millions of votes, if you look at the British Labour Party.
- stuaxo 9y ago
  You are really saying people vote labour because of anti jewish bias? I think most people don't have an opinion about Jews one way or another. Most of the antisemtic people I've met are into conspiracy theories, and they seem to be evenly split between right and left.
  - gaius 9y ago
    Perhaps you are unaware of the recent issues around Corbyn and Momentum?

deleted 9y ago

[deleted]

__blockcipher__ 9y ago

I am neutral in the Israel vs Palestine debate...I think. At least, as neutral as you can be. And I find it ridiculous that Israel can try to claim jerusalem for itself, a ground that is considered equally sacred by every religion of the book (christianity/judaeism/islam). Frankly I feel all religions of the book are ridiculous and we’d be better off if nobody had claim to the holy land. But ofc that will never happen.

braderhart 9y ago
FYI I got shadowbanned from Hacker News for basically saying what you just did.

throwaway6969 9y ago

I wonder how many people are anti-Israel because of the new settlements they keep on building in East Jerusalem? They are doing so despite broad condemnation.

meri_dian 9y ago
Yeah, many people condemn all of Israel. I guess they should just pack it up an call it a day... The Jews have tried for decades to make peace. They've received rockets and hatred in response. They're fed up, and rightfully so.
- forvelin 9y ago
  This will be absurdly political if we go on but please try to have an empathy a bit. Arabs have been there since centuries, some well planned religious migrations happened in last 100 years and then we have this mess. Why can't we go back to UN plan and call it a day ?
  - meri_dian 9y ago
    I do have empathy. The nations surrounding Israel unfortunately do not. If they decided to convene a summit tomorrow and say "we accept the existence of Israel" instead of their hateful rhetoric that they want to see Israel wiped off the map, the entire problem would be solved. The victim blaming here is deplorable. The Arabs refuse to accept a Jewish Homeland. Hence the wars, hence the sustained conflict.
    - farseer 9y ago
      >>I do have empathy. The nations surrounding Israel unfortunately do not. Some intellectual honesty please? The two nations with the largest land border with Israel I.e Jordan and Egypt both recognize and have diplomatic relations with Israel. >>The Arabs refuse to accept a Jewish Homeland The question is a Jewish Homeland under what borders? The problem with Israel is that it was never ever content within it's borders. That was adequately demonstrated 7 years after it's independence when it invaded Egypt in 1956 to annex Sinai and double its territory. If not for Eisenhower putting sense into Ben Gurion.[1] The Arabs are right fully scared to recognize any entity that has no intention to define its final borders and keeps annexing land outside the UN plan. The Israeli claim of being "provoked" into capturing land also doesn't hold any water as the Sinai campaign of 1956 shows. [1]https://www.haaretz.com/israel-news/.premium-how-israel-gave-up-the-idea-of-annexing-sinai-and-gaza-1.5468782 https://www.haaretz.com/israel-news/.premium-how-israel-gave...

Mizza 9y ago

So because of events a thousand years ago the Israelis should be immune from criticism? Give me a break. Israel is an apartheid state and sensible people don't like that. And the right of "ancestral homeland" should be respected for Israelis, but not Europeans? etc. In a rational society, any and all groups as valid targets for fair criticism. It doesn't mean that racists/reactionaries get a free pass, but it does mean that nobody gets special treatment.

meri_dian 9y ago
No one is saying the Jews should get a free pass for anything they do. Just that Israel seems like a very small reparation to pay for centuries of oppression. Israel is a far, far less "apartheid" nation than other middle eastern nations. So why does Israel get all the hate? Because of latent anti-Semitic beliefs in society, which is the point of my post.
- nyolfen 9y ago
  >Just that Israel seems like a very small reparation to pay for centuries of oppression. easy to say when it's not your family that loses their land and lives in an open-air prison
  - eanzenberg 9y ago
    Easy to picture when you compare land mass sizes.
eanzenberg 9y ago
The point of Israel is no one wants the Jews. Europe doesn’t want them. Russia doesn’t want them. The middle east sure as shit doesn’t want them. The US tolerates them. Let that sink in.
- Mizza 9y ago
  "Let that sink in" isn't an argument, and it especially isn't an argument that justifies apartheid. Nobody in Europe is saying Israel shouldn't exist, just that it should be held to modern western moral standards and accountability with regards to human rights.